Polling Without Context

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

[Poll #1018696]

Comments

Other questions

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

What do you think last.fm is representative of, if anything?
Which do you listen to most?
Are there any that surprise you?

Re: Other questions

[ninebelow.livejournal.com]

I'm surprised Placebo are that popular. Are they still going?

Re: Other questions

[whalefish.livejournal.com]

Death Cab For Cutie are a bit surprising. I knew they were a pretty big cult sort of thing in the US, didn't realise they were actually massively popular though...

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

jesus christ that is nauseating!

Interpol are the only one of those bands I feel any kindness to whatsoever and even then that's in a "didn't like their last album, can't be bothered to track down their new one, haven't listened to their first in four years" way.

I am proud to have contributed to NONE of those.

Objection!

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

*cites clear memory of Lex enjoying listening to Radiohead*

:-)

[skyecaptain.livejournal.com]

I've liked most of these bands at one point or another, actually. But most of them I only like a very specific album or song (woulda been different if I had to tick for a specific album, I guess). I used my criteria for "any good at all" for this, so ticked people I might not have if the question were, like, "how many of these people would you want to put on a list representing your taste to the rest of the world?"

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

My criteria was an imaginary co-worker asking me "Do you like [x]?". Anything I wouldn't answer "Yeah" to didn't get a tick.

The full truth

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

http://www.last.fm/music/+charts/artist/

Poptimists favourite acts (this week) Rihanna and Justice come in at #69 and #175 respectively.

I love this list

[cis.livejournal.com]

mostly because I find it really hard to answer! These are kind of poptimist-problematic artists, for me: a lot of them are groups I kind of consider poptimists to define itself against, of whom 'our' general consensus (assumed by me) doesn't approve, bands who aren't pop but are undeniably popular... and I can't really work out if I like some of them, if I secretly like them but don't want to admit to it, if I don't really like them but want to publicly declare myself 'for' them, if the amount of their songs that I like balances out how I feel about them now/in general... that sort of thing.

Re: I love this list

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Yes - this is one reason I posted it, it's a useful cautionary reminder of the gap between 'poptimism' and 'populism', & this list isn't just people voting for stuff they "ought to like", it's actual (reasonably committed one assumes) listening.

There are quite a few of these I wouldn't say I liked (by my strictish criteria) but which I wouldn't consider harmful. (Lex' big favourites INTERPOL not among them!!)

Most of them have a song a like, maybe almost all.

No girls

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

At all. That's...mildly depressing.

In the entire top 50, the only girls are Avril Lavigne (35) and Nelly Furtado (37), and NOT COINCIDENTALLY they are both approx several thousand grillion times better than anyone in the top 30.

Re: No girls

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Meg White is a gurl.

But yes, I take your point.

[cis.livejournal.com]

What do you think last.fm is representative of, if anything?

mIddle-class american teens and early-twentysomethings! computer literate, college-educated (or about to be), predominately white and white-collar (in attitude if not in actual job). Clearly they do a lot of listening at their computers, so either they're working with computers or they spend a lot of wind-down time on a computer, probably doing some kind of 'social networking' and probably not playing MMORPGs or other computer games because those have their own soundtracks, don't they? I was going to define them as 'facebook-users', rather than 'myspace-users' or 'lj-users', but actually using last.fm implies slightly more of an early-adopter mentality than using facebook. People confident in their tastes as a social identifier: you don't get a last.fm unless you think people will positively react to what you're listening to, and getting a last.fm implies that your public identity is tied up in what music you associate yourself with.

[cis.livejournal.com]

by 'working with computers' obv I mean 'doing office work or writing papers or whatever it is the students do', rather than 'being sysadmins or the like'. Basically I think these people are... the 'mode' (as in 'average') of current internet user.

Am I stereotyping dreadfully here?

[anatol-merklich.livejournal.com]

Twas hard to find out where to draw the line -- I had a couple of clear ticks, then lowering the bar some distance brought quite a lot of bands over, and lowering just a bit more would bring in everyone but a couple. Probably a bit of a "botherd" vs "oh noes" decision problem there.

I like thinking of System Of A Down's name as having to do with some sort of alphabetically indexed crossword puzzle. "See, if you put 'Allergy' in E Across, it fits with the 'System' of A Down".

[cis.livejournal.com]

ooh, there's a 'weekly top artists' chart on each country page:
United States (http://www.last.fm/place/United+States): death cab!
United Kingdom (http://www.last.fm/place/United+Kingdom): arctic monkeys!
Canada (http://www.last.fm/place/Canada): feist!
Australia (http://www.last.fm/place/Australia): ...no-one's really standing out. :(

Arf

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

http://www.last.fm/group/Extensive+Musical+Taste

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

I have based my ticks as follows: I would want to hear a song by that band again.

The artists that I might actually want to buy music from would be: White Stripes, System Of A Down, and maybe Queen. I already have heard all the Radiohead music I could ever possibly want to hear. And I mean ALL.

Whatever the last.fm demographic actually is...

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

...why, then, do they all seem to have such low self-esteem? This is all, with only a couple of exceptions, music which is a variant on 'sad' or 'whiny' or 'cathartic' or 'emo'.

Re: Whatever the last.fm demographic actually is...

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Invention of the walkman in 1980? None of the three big pre-1980 bands in the top 30 fit that description.

(hehe this is a REYNOLDS argument innit - I'll be calling it an OedIpod next)

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

Like many I like or even love at least one song by almost all of these artists. I don't really know any Death Cab For Cutie songs tho.

I wish last.fm wasn't dominated by STRAWMAN X of a certain class and cultural disposition. I guess it's American and UK teenagers/students that really account for the bigness of half of these bands. When I was a teenager I had peers who had Beatles and Floyd phases, but if Floyd are here why aren't The Doors and why are the Stones not higher??

I wish Daft Punk were higher in the list - they're one of the few dance/electronic bands who COULD be you know? They've got enough crossover appeal plus indie cred. I suppose it's the 'home listening' cliche in effect re that kind of thing. Most people just don't listen to it by actual choice (they just dance to it at parties, in clubs etc.), so it seems.

I'd like it if all the hip pop kids were logging into last.fm - would love to see Jay-Z or 2Pac as high as these rock bands - why not? What is preventing this from happening?

Lack of women of course a depressing sight but indicative of industry conditions as ever.

Basically I love last.fm but hate the general public.

[mcarratala.livejournal.com]

Think we might be overstating Americaness of Last.fm here – all the business press about the CBS buy-out was about how the US was the territory yet to be conquered. A very quick look at those figures suggests that the highest per capita use is in the UK, not that surprising since it comes from here originally.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

Interesting then because if there was an increase in US college kids using this (which there probably will be) the stats probably won't change that much at all.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

Incidentally I rather like the new Arctic Monkeys single 'Fluorescent Adolescent' - it reminds me of (the idea of) The Strokes!

[bengraham.livejournal.com]

Hehehe, I combine my "guilty pleasure" Poptimist membership with my "street cred" Drowned In Sound membership, and over on the other place, there is universal horror at the choice of 'Fluorescent Adolescent' as the new single. It is clearly the most commercial, radio-friendly, lighters in the air track that the Arctics have recorded. Most people over on DiS assume that this is the record company trying to drum up some singles sales, although generally, the Arctics have had a lot of say in what gets released and when - after all, that was why they signed to Domino and not a major in the first place. If this is the case, then it seems to have backfired - despite being seen as an albums band, the new single might well be the first by the Arctics to fail to make the Top 5 of the singles chart.

[pink-weasel.livejournal.com]

Most of those bands are fairly blah and I don't listen to them.

I never really see the point of most listened to/popular songs/bands lists. It's really uninteresting to me, I like worst/crappest lists. I'm still waiting for Channel 4/5 to count down the top 100 least successful chart singles, how much more interesting it would be to hear the story behind a one hit wonder that only bothered the charts at number 96 for a week. That would be than hearing why this week's talking heads like Bohemian Rhapsody.

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

> top 100 least successful chart singles

It would be very sad for the dudes to talk about! Esp if your single never even made it to a vinyl release and mustered only 4 downloads which were your mates getting overexcited... :(

if i had to make a CD featuring a song I liked by each artist

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

Red Hot Chilli Peppers - Breaking The Girl
The Beatles - Tomorrow Never Knows
Radiohead - There There
Linkin Park - One Step Closer
The White Stripes - The Hardest Button To Button
Muse - Bliss
Coldplay - Talk (Jacques Lu Cont mix)
Metallica - Enter: Sandman
Smashing Pumpkins - Cherub Rock
The Killers - Somebody Told Me
Nirvana - Come As You Are
Arctic Monkeys - Fluorescent Adolescent
Green Day - Longview
Pink Floyd -
System Of A Down - Chop Suey

Fall Out Boy - This Ain't A Scene...
Death Cab For Cutie - ?
Placebo - English Summer Rain (Freelance Hellraiser mix)
Led Zeppelin - Over The Hills And Far Away
Queen - Another One Bites The Dust
Interpol - PDA (I like the new single tho)
Bloc Party - Banquet
Incubus - Are You In (not actually v good but can't think of anything else)
Arcade Fire - Power Out
U2 - MOFO lol
Oasis - Columbia
My Chemical Romance - Welcome To The Black Parade
Blink-182 - Man Overboard
Snow Patrol - Spitting Games
Foo Fighters - Everlong

Re: if i had to make a CD featuring a song I liked by each artist

[infov0re.livejournal.com]

That's very similar to what I'd pick if I had to do that. A few differences on the "second disc", but not far off...

also, that Freelance Hellraiser remix of "English Summer Rain" is stonking. So much better than the original!

Album artists

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

I would say most of these artists focus on albums rather than singles, and their listeners are more likely to play an album in its entirety before skipping to a different artist than rnb or dance fans (the latter would also be more likely to consume music via compilations or dj mixes - I know I do!), therefore you would get 12x songs for that artist instead of 'that one Beyonce song I liked and bought off iTunes'.

Amiright?

Re: Album artists

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Yes - but they're being ranked on # of listeners not # of plays. So 1 play of "Umbrella" wd be equal to an entire Incubus box set.

SURPRISE SURPRISE

[bengraham.livejournal.com]

For me, the biggest surprise (and one which I don't think anyone has mentioned yet) is the appearance in that top 30 of Bloc Party. Bearing in mind that neither Franz Ferdinand or the Kaiser Chiefs made the list, I think this is quite a statement about Bloc Party. After all, their albums made #114 and #12 in the US charts, better than the Kaiser Chiefs (#86 and #45) but worse than Franz (#32 and #8). But it's especially surprising when you think about the bands that haven't made the list - The Rolling Stones, The Pixies, REM... hell, even Panic! At The Disco, who I would have expected to be unbelievably popular with the last.fm demographic.

Re: SURPRISE SURPRISE

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Don't they have an album out much more recently than the other bands you mentioned? Like, within the last month?

[poptasticuk.livejournal.com]

Where are the women? Where are the non-guitar bands? Where is the pop? Where are the non-US/UK bands? Also there's not a single solo singer there. Last FM overall charts are consistently depressing, although the countries ones are handy for ticking off places it is and isn't safe to live in future.

In the list I only ticked 3, the ones I've ever bought albums by - Killers, Arcade Fire & Snow Patrol.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

There's not a single solo singer there.

Wow! You're right. I didn't notice that. That's REALLY intriguing - I cannot think of any reason that might be (other than a lack of available candidates I guess - but WHY?)

[justfanoe.livejournal.com]

Reasons for my ticks, now you can see my criteria:

Red Hot Chilli Peppers - Ick, no. I like one or two songs tho
The Beatles - I like most of their songs, tickaroo
Radiohead - Overrated, but still pretty good. May rescind this tick.
Linkin Park - Underrated, borderline, but they deserve more ticks than they have.
The White Stripes - One of my 10 favorite bands of this decade. "Fell In Love With a Girl" = brilliant.
Muse - eeeh, no tick.
Coldplay - Lord no
Metallica - Pretty good for a metal band. Give em a tick. I like "Enter Sandman" and a few others.
Smashing Pumpkins - "1979" is good, but can't stand em for the most part. No tick.
The Killers - I've liked all of their singles that I've heard, 'cept "Read My Mind", but that's still about 3 or 4 singles that I really like, so that's tickworthy. Never heard an album of theirs, but suspect I'd probably like their first.
Nirvana - Maybe a touch overrated, still have lots o great pop tunes.
Arctic Monkeys - I ticked them but it was pretty generous as I know none of their songs apart from "I Bet You Look Good on the Dancefloor". 100% hit rate of "any good at all" = tickworthy.
Green Day - Several great pop singles. Easy tick.
Pink Floyd - I like the Syd Barrett album, but easily counteracted by decades of trudging crap that followed.
System Of A Down - No.

Fall Out Boy - I really like their latest album. Tick.
Death Cab For Cutie - I saw them in concert once. They were horrible. God, I hate them.
Placebo - I have never knowingly heard a Placebo song, so I cannot in good conscience tick them.
Led Zeppelin - I have a massive, irrational hatred for Led, though they have a couple good songs, (eeh, "Tangerine", "Rock & Roll")
Queen - One of the all time greats. Easy tick.
Interpol - Didn't like their first album, never heard the second.
Bloc Party - Never heard a song of theirs I could even stand, much less like.
Incubus - Horrible. Deservedly at 0 ticks as of this writing. How are they in the top 30????
Arcade Fire - First album was OK, but don't like latest album so that pushes them out of tick.
U2 - Pretentious and overrated and Bono is a douche and etc., etc. They have a lot of crap and a pretty low hit rate, but they've released several pop singles I really enjoy (most of Joshua Tree, "Sweetest Thing", "Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me Kill Me", etc.) "One" is probably the most overrated single of all time. Marginal tick.
Oasis - Of course not.
My Chemical Romance - I've enjoyed all of their singles I've heard but not heard a full album. Their two singles this year are both in my 2007 top 10 to this point.
Blink-182 - Several great pop tunes ("What's My Age Again", "Dammit") almost counteracted by lots of crap ("All the Small Things"), but not quite. Tick.
Snow Patrol - No.
Foo Fighters - I enjoy several of their songs, and "Everlong" is genuinely great.

Basic criteria was "can I construct a decent best-of CD for this band", but I did give demerits for particularly crap songs they've released.

[jel-bugle.livejournal.com]

I really can't Death Cab for Cutie, I bought one of their CD's coz the record shop had written "sounds like Elf Power and Elephanht 6!" on the price label. They were just bland emo-pants.

The list is okay I guess, very safe sort of college/early university/3 for £20 in the HMV sale demographic. There are a few bands I like, and some I really can't stand (Fall Out Boy).

[cocainepeaches.livejournal.com]

After having given it a quick look I think the top artists chart on last.fm might very well be the funniest thing ever (today)

Still it surprises me the absolute lack of pop and generally good artists on those lists - when I look at my dashboard and see what my friends and 'weekly neighbours' are listening to, I see loads of it. There can't really be that many people listening to Incubus every week, surely? Surely? What does make people care about the Red Hot Chilli Peppers? What? What is going on in THEIR MINDS

Anyway - I've liked some of those at some point in my life, but most on a strict 'just this one album' level. I decided to tick the ones I have listened to (and probably liked) more than one album by. I might go back later when no one is looking anymore and tick FOB because as embarrassed as I might be about it, their album has been on for three days non-stop and I am still not fed-up. GOD I DON'T KNOW I JUST, I CAN'T BRING MYSELF TO STOP PLAYING IT THERE YOU GO :( :(

[jeff-worrell.livejournal.com]

There is no shame in ticking Fall Out Boy. They are the most poptimist-compatible band on the list after The Beatles and Queen.

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

cis's comments upthread re: who last.fm listeners are OTM, and that's the main issue with the overall charts I think. a close second are the tagging issues ("Ciera" vs. "Ciera ft." vs. "Ciera and") and the streaming issues (artists who have tracks that stream, and more of them, will place higher).

re: various comments about the lack of "pop" - is it fair to say that pop has a shorter shelf life than whatever this mass of stuff - ie., radiohead listeners katstevens and alexmacpherson aside) will listen, at least occasionally, to them for years and years, whereas we may not play any Madge, Britney, or Bouncy in those weeks/months/years in between releases, when our passions are somewhere else.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

That doesn't chime with MY experience of "pop" or of "non-pop" really, but I may well be an unusual case. I tend to listen to everything in the same way - intense periods of listening, sometimes but not always clustering round a new record, and then long fallow stretches.