"srsly poptimists need 1x CRASH COURSE in contemporary hip-hop"

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

(That's the Lex speaking)

1. Do we? Or "Do you?" I should say, since we're a loose clumping of individuals innit.

2. GO ON THEN! What's the best hip-hop you've heard this year?

Comments

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I guess my starter for 10 on the first one wd be to push back against the (unspoken) idea that there is a "contemporary hip-hop" that's happening somewhere else, comprehensible and accessible. I don't buy into the idea that hip-hop's in aesthetic decline (commercially? I dunno) but where would the centre of it be?

It would certainly be true to say I haven't especially FOLLOWED hip-hop this year, or for a while - there's I think two hip-hop records in my top 25. Maybe my impression that there WAS once some kind of coherence to the development of hip-hop is historicising it and is too filtered through my means of finding out about it back then i.e. the Brit music press, no street bible they.

[koganbot]

Kurtis Blow says that from the get-go there was a split in hip-hop between the Manhattan guys like DJ Hollywood into disco and the Bronx ones like Bambaataa and Flash & the Furious Five into funk. But the latter two were huge Kraftwerk fans, and Bambaataa ended up helping to invent electro and ultimately had as much or more impact on club music than on hip-hop. And I think it was fairly arbitrary not to call freestyle "hip-hop," though since it generally lacked rapping I guess the exclusion wasn't that arbitrary, but it was into the same beat manipulation. And the South, which wasn't as averse to club beats as New York hip-hop turned out to be, ended up triumphing. And the NYers were always trying to claim that the non-NY competition wasn't real hip-hop.

Daft Question

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

[I am away from the computer for most of today so when I return I am expecting plenty of derision]

Does hip-hop need to have rapping in it?

Re: Daft Question

[zenith.livejournal.com]

I think the answer is "No, but when it doesn't have singing or shouting in it either, the historic record shows much of what was produced has been very bad, and acclaimed in inverse proportion to its badness by people who don't like rapping".

Bold sweeping statements R us

[celentari.livejournal.com]

With the odd exception, I've never been that gripped by hip-hop. It doesn't (based on what I've heard thus far) seem to speak to me, aesthetically, lyrically or musically. Is there something I should hear that would change my mind?

I'm generally pretty open-minded genre-wise, and enjoy pop, indie, swing, big band, rock, metal, some rap, dance, electro, house etc, etc. and am kind of disappointed in myself that I don't seem bothered by hip-hop, but maybe all I need is to hear the right tracks.

Re: Bold sweeping statements R us

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Tracks in my 2007 top 50 which have rapping on (not counting Jay-Z's intro on Umbrella!):

MIA - "Bird Flu", "Paper Planes"
Dizzee Rascal - "Pussy'ole (Old Skool)"
Dude N Nem - "Watch My Feet"
Lethal Bizzle - "Police On My Back"
Soulja Boy - "Crank Dat (Soulja Boy)"
Ashley Tisdale - "Be Good To Me (Remix)"
Will I Am - "I Got It From My Mama"

For all of these I suspect you would be able to find someone, or several someones, saying they weren't proper hip-hop, or even if they were that they're rubbish hip-hop. The Lethal Bizzle is very indie friendly; the Dude N Nem is very catchy and also completely unobjectionable lyrically as far as I can tell. Both that and Soulja Boy have dances that go with them which I endorse 1000%.

This is kind of why I asked the rapping question above

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

I don't go for hip-hop as much as pop or dance because my brain just doesn't notice lyrics that often. Lyrical assonance, intonation or other stuff you learn in GCSE English definitely hits my radar, but Kanye could be singing about cheese on toast for all I care. I'm not sure why this is the case but I think it makes my appreciation of hip-hop suffer. Take the Soulja Boy track for example - the 'Youuuuuuu!'s and 'Ohhhhhhhhhh!'s are awesome and catchy, but the rest of the song leaves me cold. I find the beats and instrumentation monotonous and uninspiring, and whilst Soulja Boy could be saying something ground-breaking or hilarious in the verses they just didn't register with me.

Even mental types like Fergie/Lily/Britney - they could be saying hilarious stuff but I wouldn't pay it any attention before I'd decided whether the music was any good or not.

Re: Daft Question

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I understand that poptimists might not hear US hip-hop in the first place - that's a failing of the system really, whereby US rappers have no need or interest in breaking the UK, and where UK radio and media turns its nose up at US rappers - but it's been worrying and slightly depressing that poptimists basically show 0 interest in the genre. It's not even something like grime or minimal where you need to delve particularly deep into the genre to follow it - you can skim the particular rappers or producers who appeal most, or just follow the big hitz, and anyway I don't want to hear anyone complaining that following hip-hop is too much effort when everyone seemed to magically get hold of the boring Girls Aloud album within seconds of it leaking.

So my question is: why don't you YES YOU like hip-hop - what is it that puts you off even taking an interest even when someone (usually me) goes "hey listen to this it's awesome"?

And my recommendations on the year:

in terms of albums the only really essential ones I've heard are Hyphy Hitz (SERIOUSLY) and Lil' Wayne's Da Drought 3 mixtape, which is basically him doing his surreal wordplay over a selection of famous recent beats. The rhythm of his flow is totally screwy, you kind of...have to learn to count along in a very off-kilter way, it's very enjoyable doing this. Oh and pick up his Tha Carter III album from last year while you're at it.

Singles however is a nigh-on endless list of hott stuffz - no time to really write in detail but believe, every one of these is fucking incredible:

Crime Mob ft Lil' Scrappy - Rock Yo Hips ("I got 32 flavours of that bootylicious bubblegum")
USDA - White Girl (esp the rmx with Lil' Wayne, Fabolous etc etc) ("you know we keep that white girl, like to call her Tammy/Born in Colombia, she moved to Miami")
Gucci Mane ft Lil' Kim & Ludacris - Freaky Gurl ("I'm a freak so I don't care, just don't get nothin' in my hair")
Trina - Single Again ("Stop! Wait a goddamned minute: it ain't over til I say we finished!")
P Diddy ft Keyshia Cole - Last Night ("ALL CRIED OUT WITH NOTHING TO SAY")
Young Buck - Get Buck ("I can serve Whitney Houston AND Bobby Brown")
T-Pain ft Yung Joc - Buy U A Drank (Shawty Snappin') (eh, it's all about the bounce, not the words)
Eve - Tambourine ("got you going crazy, well that was the plan")
Chamillionaire ft Kelis - Not A Criminal

plus the big dumb hits obv - Mims, Soulja Boy et al.

And loads more that I have forgotten as well!

Re: Daft Question

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I haven't really got my head round the Lil Wayne I've heard - maybe the flow is the issue. I like his "Upgrade U" version tho.

Re: Daft Question

[celentari.livejournal.com]

Ok, ta for recs, I will try them out and let you know how I get on. Willing to learn!

Re: Daft Question

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

the big dumb hits obv - Mims

"This is why I'm hot", released in Jun, went to #18, for those playing along at home.

Re: Daft Question

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

I'm not poking fun, I'd just never heard of it.

Re: Daft Question

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

oh fuck I forgot 'Go Getta' by Young Jeezy ft R Kelly! SO GOOD, so majestic, so 84 feet tall.

Re: Daft Question

[lockedintheatti.livejournal.com]

It's not just US hip-hop though - UK radio (apart from the specialist shows obv) don't pay that much attention to UK hip-hop either, as far as I can make out, even when it's very radio friendly, such as the Lethal Bizzle single or the new Estelle single (which is bloody fantastic and as far as I can make out seems to have been mostly ignored so far)

NOW here's a question

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

When does something stop being RnB and start being Hip-hop?

Of the tracks you mention above, I absolutely love P Diddy & Keisha, and Eve's Tambourine - but I'd say they were RnB. Focus on music and vocal performance rather than lyrics/rapping/chopping up samples.

OK - first see my comment above about my personal reaction to lyrics. Now, an example: Lil'Mama's Lipgloss. VERY sparse arrangement, just drums, clapping and Lil'Mama herself talking (i.e. not singing) - because there's no music for me to judge the song by, I *have* to listen to the lyrics. And guess what, she's poppin'! And this draws attention to the repetition & the pace of her words. Is this rapping? Is it hip-hop? Almost certainly. There's a TERRIBLE part of my brain that does the calculations as follows:

Lil'Mama = pretty girl, good at dancing, talks about school, boys and fun
Lil'Mama = not an angry dude talking about money, guns, drvgs, cars or hos
Hence Lil'Mama = RnB, not hip-hop.

Re: Daft Question

[mostlyconnect.livejournal.com]

why don't you YES YOU like hip-hop - what is it that puts you off even taking an interest even when someone (usually me) goes "hey listen to this it's awesome"?

I have liked Hip-Hop in the past when I had more time for music but now that it is very much not a priority in my life I often find it too much effort to enjoy? Too abrasive, too covetous of my attention. Really I am quite heppy w/ listening to that Sky Was Pink rmx forever.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

Why I will always like some hip-hop: TEH BEATZ
Why I will always hate some hip-hop: TEH THEMATIC BANKRUPTCY

It's like what I said about Britney - not really interested in the message but still intrigued and entertained by the medium...to varying extents. The message might be so boring that it over-rules any other aspect of the track I might like. I probably do give hip-hop a harder time over this than other genres but that's because of the cultural precipice (an issue of artist-listener trust - should i be investing in this music? am i wanted here?) that has improved in some ways over 25 years but worsened in others.

Unfortunately, whether due to not keeping up or it not being there or both, I haven't heard enough hip-hop this year that intrigued or entertained me from that sonic angle. Have pretty much given up on expecting thematic novelty - unfair maybe. That's still all it takes to get me interested initially tho.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I don't think hip-hop has any greater thematic bankruptcy than any other genre (i.e. loads), so is it the specific themes that put you off?

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

Kano and Craig David, that were lovely that was. Probably not hip-hop though is it. What is hip-hop anyway? Is 'DVNO' by Justice hip-hop? No it is not, is it.

Halp, genre failure. I've always maintained that I need a crash course in hip-hop anyway.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I guess technically Kano is grime? although 'This Is The Girl' is definitely not grime. It is great though I was more talking about US hip-hop not filtering through - people seem to be fairly aware of and amenable to people like Dizz round here...

[sbp.livejournal.com]

I still think that hiphop is Rapper's Delight and Grandmaster Flash and so on.

[zenith.livejournal.com]

1. Pretty much every website on which I've ever discussed music, with the exception of actual hip-hop boards, has had a significant number of people on it (often the majority) who didn't "get" contemporary (mainstream) hip-hop... By which I mean not only that they weren't fans, but that they had some kind of additional aversion or resistance to it, sometimes couched in moral or pseudo-political terms. The obvious major exception to this would be ILM (at its peak, but still to an extent today), where I've often been made to realise how relative these things are and how little I know myself. So yes, I think it is a gap for poptimism, and it's a gap for me too.

2. I have been very out of touch this year, I feel... Yet at the same time the year feels so divided up into different chunks that it is hard to assess what stuff I heard is better than others. In spring I was all about the El-P album, I'll Sleep When You're Dead (astonishing that I could ever like a song featuring the Mars Volta, but I do). In the summer it was all about catching up with mainstream stuff - 'Pussy' by Clipse, 'Go DJ' by Lil Wayne... More recently: the tracks I've heard from the new Jay-Z album are all great and I'll be getting that on Monday; ditto 'Celebrate' by Ghostface and a bunch of tracks that won't be on his album, including 'The Odd Couple' with Cappadonna and 'Crambodia' with Plastic Little, Spank Rock and Amanda Blank (getting Ghost on this track was obviously a massive coup). Oh, and I literally just heard for the first time 'Drop & Give Me 50' by Mike Jones and Hurricane Chris, which is fantastic and seems to feature a Fox N Wolf reference? Maybe?

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

It's interesting you say that about ILM - my main memory of hip-hop discussion on ILM was the near-perpetual one-upmanship between people keen to demonstrate that they "got" it more than others.

This produced an atmosphere in which only the very foolhardy (or long-ensconced and pre-screened regulars) would generalise about the moral woes of hip-hop, but it also meant that actual conversation about it was pretty fun-free.

[martinv.livejournal.com]

Uh. I am rubbishly unaware of any hip-hop at the moment. I used to know some, when misteryguest was pointing me towards things. But that was, like, 3 years ago at least. Maybe I'll go for some of those recommendations up there.

Is that Lethal Bizzle track anything to do with the Clash track (well, cover) of the same name?

I like hip-hop if it's got a good girl vocal in it, usually. All other sins become pretty much forgiveable in those cases...

[martinv.livejournal.com]

Although, in fairness, it's very, very rarely been music I'd sit at home and listen to. Great for dancing - as long as it's mixed in with a few other genres too. I find too much of any genre pretty dull in clubs. Unless I'm very very drunk.

I also sometimes get the sense that hip-hop tends to veer between extremes of the downright daft and the po-facedly serious. My general, and OK somewhat limiting, musical philosophy tends to lean towards the sort of music which can balance somewhere in the middle - a touch of lightness or a sly wink in the middle of something otherwise serious, or an essentially fun song that reveals a bit of depth/emotion at some point. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places. Dizzee Rascal (especially on the first album) can do it. The Streets used to do it very well, but that's veering somewhat off-topic. MIA? Definitely. Kelis at times. Big US male artists though... hmm... tell me otherwise?

[friend-of-tofu.livejournal.com]

Sorry to say I've not been listening to enough new music of late, hip-hop or otherwise - it's that no radio at home/no music at work/no music on computer bind!

I'm as amenable to hip-hop as to any other genre but I'm old and dull, I play my Roots Manuva albums over and over I'm afraid.

Hip-Hop/R&B In My 2007 Top 60

[koganbot]

I myself wouldn't mind a crash course on the Varieties Of Hip-Hop Experience, from indie-undie to snap and hyphy. There's so much, so varied.

I've only been giving side-listens to hip-hop this year, hope to make up for that a bit in the next couple of weeks. My guess is that most of the action is in snap and crunk and hyphy (whereas I've never warmed to the Houston sound), but I wouldn't really know.

In any event, even though everyone's gone home, the following are singles in my current 2007 top 60 that I'd say are hip-hop/r&b-related (or in the case of Ashley Tisdale, aren't, but have a rap in it, even though there are two other, better Tisdales also in my top 60, and they both have raps too, but since the raps are by Tisdale rather than an authentic black-sounding rapper-type person I guess they don't count, though I'd claim that "Not Like That" is actually far closer to hip-hop/r&b than "Be Good To Me" is; was produced by a Jew rather than an Italian); I italicized the ones that seem more hip-hop qua hip-hop than the others. I bolded The Go! Team for being the most WTF song on the list (an authentic old-school Bronx-style rap whooshed up in a blender). I arbitrarily decided to include a dancehall and a reggaeton track on this list, but to exclude ska.

Lloyd f. Lil Wayne "You"
Britney Spears "Gimme More"
Yung Berg f. Junior "Sexy Lady"
Paula DeAnda f. Lil Wayne "Easy"
Keak Da Sneak "That Go"
Natasha "Hey Hey Hey"
Rihanna f. Jay-Z "Umbrella" [also the remix w/ Lil Mama]
Britney Spears "Piece Of Me"
Rihanna "Shut Up And Drive"
Sadie Ama "Fallin'"
Lil Mama "Lip Gloss"
T2 f. Jodie Aysha "Heartbroken"
Unklejam "What Am I Fighting For?"
The Fixxers "Can You Werk Wit Dat"
Gorilla Zoe "Hood Nigga"
Keak Da Sneak "N Fronta Yo Momma House"
Ashley Tisdale "Be Good To Me"
Redman "Put It Down"
M.I.A. "Bird Flu"
The Go! Team "Grip Like A Vice"
Dude 'N Nem "Watch My Feet"
Lethal Bizzle "Police On My Back"
Enrique Iglesias f. Lil Wayne "Push"
Shaggy "Church Heathen"
James Deano "Les Blancs Ne Savent Pas Danser"
Groove Armada f. Lady Stush "Get Down"
Mims "This Is Why I’m Hot"
Daddy Yankee "Impacto"
Trick Daddy f. Baby "Tuck Ya Ice"

Subject for further research: the new Kid Rock album (don't know if it has any raps on it).

Re: Hip-Hop/R&B In My 2007 Top 60

[koganbot]

Er, didn't mean to italicize Bizzle, since I associate him more w/ grime than with hip-hop.

[mooxyjoo.livejournal.com]

new rap i've liked this year, in a year where i've been kind of tuned out:

the devin the dude album
the prodigy of mobb deep 'mixtape' (officially released, nothing much keeping it from being an album)
hyphy hitz

other singles i liked besides ones by them: some crime mob ones, and 'brand new funk 2k7' by peedi crakk and dj jazzy jeff (remaking jeff and the fresh prince version)

parts of the ugk 2cd album have been very satisfying, but so far overall it wasn't what i was hoping it would be. pimp c pretty great, best i've heard him in some places, but bun b sounds a little unconfident, uncreative, and many of the beats are a little too influenced by more contemporary sounds than i'd like. some songs great though, and 'big dick cheney and tony snow' still = awesome new aliases.

the j-zone mixes (mostly of every undergroundish production he's ever done) i got off some blog are pretty entertaining, i haven't listened to them much yet though.

i had hopes for the new 8ball + mjg album but it was kind of boring. mjg came super hard though.

i didn't click with turf talk's much-anticipated album. wc's new album on his new record label was kind of pathetically underdone (and i really really loved his 'west side heavy hitter' mix, and the first westside connection album, too).

waiting on the new scarface album (dec.?) and freeway album (have yet to steal!) - like the freeway single, and a demo i heard leaked a long long time ago with scarface guesting; the first single from scarface's album is pretty hot, with some bitter look-woman-this-is-how-i-roll-so-you-ain't-gonna-hurt-me wisdom-slash-self-deception-slash-cruelty.

i guess i'll see about the new wu-tang, but i'm not bothered either way right now.

Keak Da Sneak

[koganbot]

Have you heard Keak Da Sneak's "That Go" and "N Fronta Yo Momma House"? Those two are more riveting (for me) than anything on Hyphy Hitz. Spare and growly.