"srsly poptimists need 1x CRASH COURSE in contemporary hip-hop"

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

(That's the Lex speaking)

1. Do we? Or "Do you?" I should say, since we're a loose clumping of individuals innit.

2. GO ON THEN! What's the best hip-hop you've heard this year?

Comments

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I guess my starter for 10 on the first one wd be to push back against the (unspoken) idea that there is a "contemporary hip-hop" that's happening somewhere else, comprehensible and accessible. I don't buy into the idea that hip-hop's in aesthetic decline (commercially? I dunno) but where would the centre of it be?

It would certainly be true to say I haven't especially FOLLOWED hip-hop this year, or for a while - there's I think two hip-hop records in my top 25. Maybe my impression that there WAS once some kind of coherence to the development of hip-hop is historicising it and is too filtered through my means of finding out about it back then i.e. the Brit music press, no street bible they.

Daft Question

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

[I am away from the computer for most of today so when I return I am expecting plenty of derision]

Does hip-hop need to have rapping in it?

Re: Daft Question

[zenith.livejournal.com]

I think the answer is "No, but when it doesn't have singing or shouting in it either, the historic record shows much of what was produced has been very bad, and acclaimed in inverse proportion to its badness by people who don't like rapping".

Bold sweeping statements R us

[celentari.livejournal.com]

With the odd exception, I've never been that gripped by hip-hop. It doesn't (based on what I've heard thus far) seem to speak to me, aesthetically, lyrically or musically. Is there something I should hear that would change my mind?

I'm generally pretty open-minded genre-wise, and enjoy pop, indie, swing, big band, rock, metal, some rap, dance, electro, house etc, etc. and am kind of disappointed in myself that I don't seem bothered by hip-hop, but maybe all I need is to hear the right tracks.

Re: Daft Question

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

hip-hop without rapping = trip-hop

Re: Bold sweeping statements R us

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Tracks in my 2007 top 50 which have rapping on (not counting Jay-Z's intro on Umbrella!):

MIA - "Bird Flu", "Paper Planes"
Dizzee Rascal - "Pussy'ole (Old Skool)"
Dude N Nem - "Watch My Feet"
Lethal Bizzle - "Police On My Back"
Soulja Boy - "Crank Dat (Soulja Boy)"
Ashley Tisdale - "Be Good To Me (Remix)"
Will I Am - "I Got It From My Mama"

For all of these I suspect you would be able to find someone, or several someones, saying they weren't proper hip-hop, or even if they were that they're rubbish hip-hop. The Lethal Bizzle is very indie friendly; the Dude N Nem is very catchy and also completely unobjectionable lyrically as far as I can tell. Both that and Soulja Boy have dances that go with them which I endorse 1000%.

Re: Daft Question

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I understand that poptimists might not hear US hip-hop in the first place - that's a failing of the system really, whereby US rappers have no need or interest in breaking the UK, and where UK radio and media turns its nose up at US rappers - but it's been worrying and slightly depressing that poptimists basically show 0 interest in the genre. It's not even something like grime or minimal where you need to delve particularly deep into the genre to follow it - you can skim the particular rappers or producers who appeal most, or just follow the big hitz, and anyway I don't want to hear anyone complaining that following hip-hop is too much effort when everyone seemed to magically get hold of the boring Girls Aloud album within seconds of it leaking.

So my question is: why don't you YES YOU like hip-hop - what is it that puts you off even taking an interest even when someone (usually me) goes "hey listen to this it's awesome"?

And my recommendations on the year:

in terms of albums the only really essential ones I've heard are Hyphy Hitz (SERIOUSLY) and Lil' Wayne's Da Drought 3 mixtape, which is basically him doing his surreal wordplay over a selection of famous recent beats. The rhythm of his flow is totally screwy, you kind of...have to learn to count along in a very off-kilter way, it's very enjoyable doing this. Oh and pick up his Tha Carter III album from last year while you're at it.

Singles however is a nigh-on endless list of hott stuffz - no time to really write in detail but believe, every one of these is fucking incredible:

Crime Mob ft Lil' Scrappy - Rock Yo Hips ("I got 32 flavours of that bootylicious bubblegum")
USDA - White Girl (esp the rmx with Lil' Wayne, Fabolous etc etc) ("you know we keep that white girl, like to call her Tammy/Born in Colombia, she moved to Miami")
Gucci Mane ft Lil' Kim & Ludacris - Freaky Gurl ("I'm a freak so I don't care, just don't get nothin' in my hair")
Trina - Single Again ("Stop! Wait a goddamned minute: it ain't over til I say we finished!")
P Diddy ft Keyshia Cole - Last Night ("ALL CRIED OUT WITH NOTHING TO SAY")
Young Buck - Get Buck ("I can serve Whitney Houston AND Bobby Brown")
T-Pain ft Yung Joc - Buy U A Drank (Shawty Snappin') (eh, it's all about the bounce, not the words)
Eve - Tambourine ("got you going crazy, well that was the plan")
Chamillionaire ft Kelis - Not A Criminal

plus the big dumb hits obv - Mims, Soulja Boy et al.

And loads more that I have forgotten as well!

Re: Daft Question

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I haven't really got my head round the Lil Wayne I've heard - maybe the flow is the issue. I like his "Upgrade U" version tho.

Re: Bold sweeping statements R us

[celentari.livejournal.com]

Ah, had forgotten about Dizzee Rascal, I do like him. And I like MIA but for some reason wouldn't have necessarily have pegged her as hip-hop. Perhaps I'm being daft there.
Lyrically, it's not a case of looking for something "unobjectionable" as such, more something that will make me sit up and take notice, whether because it's funny, makes clever use of language, or speaks to me emotionally. Or all three cf. Magnetic Fields.

Re: Daft Question

[celentari.livejournal.com]

Ok, ta for recs, I will try them out and let you know how I get on. Willing to learn!

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

Why I will always like some hip-hop: TEH BEATZ
Why I will always hate some hip-hop: TEH THEMATIC BANKRUPTCY

It's like what I said about Britney - not really interested in the message but still intrigued and entertained by the medium...to varying extents. The message might be so boring that it over-rules any other aspect of the track I might like. I probably do give hip-hop a harder time over this than other genres but that's because of the cultural precipice (an issue of artist-listener trust - should i be investing in this music? am i wanted here?) that has improved in some ways over 25 years but worsened in others.

Unfortunately, whether due to not keeping up or it not being there or both, I haven't heard enough hip-hop this year that intrigued or entertained me from that sonic angle. Have pretty much given up on expecting thematic novelty - unfair maybe. That's still all it takes to get me interested initially tho.

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

Kano and Craig David, that were lovely that was. Probably not hip-hop though is it. What is hip-hop anyway? Is 'DVNO' by Justice hip-hop? No it is not, is it.

Halp, genre failure. I've always maintained that I need a crash course in hip-hop anyway.

Re: Daft Question

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

The thing with Da Drought 3 is that its appeal is almost entirely in the words - the beats are great but they're not his and not the point. A lot of the time I can remember great lines but have no idea where on the mixtape he used them - I think my favourite section is the triumphalist section from 'Ride For My Niggas' through to 'I Can't Feel My Face' on CD1 though where it seems like words are just tumbling unbidden out of him. Love his versions of 'Promise' and 'Crazy' too...

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I don't think hip-hop has any greater thematic bankruptcy than any other genre (i.e. loads), so is it the specific themes that put you off?

Re: Daft Question

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I think the Trina and Gucci Mane are still on my lj from last week...

Kim absolutely kills the beat on her guest spot, that lascivious "yeeeaaaahhhh" is one of the best noises I have heard coming out of anyone's mouth this year.

Re: Daft Question

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

The thing is this gives me the same kind of "well I might like it buuuuut" reaction as I get when people praise the Hold Steady.

Too many words. I spend my whole life paying attention to bloody words. MOAR CONCISENESS.

Re: Bold sweeping statements R us

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

The Lethal Bizzle is very funny and well told. Dude N Nem and Soulja Boy aren't going to win any prizes for great lyrics: it's all about the way they use words as instrumental hooks - the way Dude N Nem's voices switch up a pace with the music like a card-sharp doing find the lady, and the huge gleeful swooping "YOUUUUUUUUU" hook on Soulja Boy.

Re: Daft Question

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

the big dumb hits obv - Mims

"This is why I'm hot", released in Jun, went to #18, for those playing along at home.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I guess technically Kano is grime? although 'This Is The Girl' is definitely not grime. It is great though I was more talking about US hip-hop not filtering through - people seem to be fairly aware of and amenable to people like Dizz round here...

Re: Daft Question

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

I'm not poking fun, I'd just never heard of it.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I think a real issue for casual Brit listeners is that the massive spread of regional hip-hop in the US has created a big slang divide (obviously me getting older is part of this too).

Re: Daft Question

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

oh fuck I forgot 'Go Getta' by Young Jeezy ft R Kelly! SO GOOD, so majestic, so 84 feet tall.

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

Do poptimists listen to that much US music generally though? We're fairly UK-centric I think, although possibly that's wrong and obviously it's a bit narrow perhaps but US music, with a few notable exceptions, seems to be getting increasingly alien to me. That said, three of your recs are very liable to end up in any sort of end-of-year list I make (Diddy, Trina, Eve) and a few of the others'd probably be hovering around the edges. Except 'White Girl,' which I find offensive on behalf of humanity.

Everyone's been rather excited re: Timbaland&Keri&DOE though, haven't they? I suppose that's proof that if hip-hop gets radioplay, people aren't averse to it, it's just that it doesn't get over here.

I am not awake yet, please excuse the total lack of sense above.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Surely the slang issue has always been there in hip-hop though? it's not as if Snoop and Dre or Missy and Ludacris ever used language more familiar to British people than TI and Crime Mob...

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

The whole Timbaland album is really surprisingly consistent and good, at least until he remembers that he's "into rock", but all that stuff is at the end.