Something said in the pub

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

by thenipper:

"I think Lily Allen and Amy Winehouse have killed Xenomania style pop, in the same way Britpop killed off Take That."

(I paraphrase)

Let's talk about....THE ZEITGEIST of BRITISH POP.

Comments

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Did Britpop really kill off Take That? My memory is of early Britpop coexisting quite happily with TT, who killed themselves off at the height of their popularity.

And I'm not sure how viable "Xenomania-style pop" ever has been. I mean...other than 'Round Round' have they actually made any massive pop hits without Girls Aloud? Even if Allen and Winehouse didn't exist, I think it'd be apparent that Xenomania's work outside of GA has been fairly moribund. Killing "Richard X style pop" might be a better qn as that looked like it was going to be a fairly viable model for lots of popstars, inc the second-tier, rather than one group's fairly unique sound.

But anyway, I think what Allen and Winehouse have done is completely erased the tension between "Take That music" and "Britpop music" - they satisfy people looking for both, they're acceptable as "fun pop stars" and as "authentic artists" without being "too naff" or "too serious".

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I think in the heat of pub discourse Xenomania was standing in for the whole early-mid 00s* clever electropopjustice thing.

*as Carsmile remarked the other day, OMG ITS THE LATE 00s.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

...ie I think Xenomania have actually subsumed themselves, not very successfully, into "Allen/Winehouse music" - their career arc shows a definite tightening in recent years, an increasing tendency to be conservative, to try and bandwagon on the current taste for catchy guitar music. To the detriment of all involved tbh.

Dunno if the Cheryl/Lily feud is really significant of anything - Allen's had a feud/rumoured feud with just about everyone and I can't see this sort of thing dividing fans of either group (or if it does it's in a Blur/Oasis way where they're still in under the same umbrella-ella-ella-ay-ay-ay) (and thank the lord Rihanna is not holding this particular one).

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

xeno's use of guitars isn't conservative though

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Maybe not in itself but since Chemistry every Xeno production I've heard has followed the exact same sonic template (electro-rock, electro-rock, electro-rock) - I personally find it moribund (though oddly not when Hilary Duff jumped on it for her latest) (which Xenomania had no hand in) but they used to zig-zag hither and thither for every new GA single - I think confining themselves to one template goes against all the instincts of early Xenomania, I would call that conservative.

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

yes fair enough -- as admitted earlier i am busking off of v.thin info in this argt!

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

No STAND YR GROUND - if the Lex is including Chemistry in this (i.e. equating the guitars on Love Machine with those on Biology) then he is being a deaf aid.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

no since Chemistry! There are a couple of dull moments on it but the guitars are largely put to very er zig-zaggy effect on it.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

how many variations/templates did Higgins really have tho? they've always been pretty guitary/electro-rock no?

[dickmalone.livejournal.com]

If there's anything that makes me want to go Simon Reynolds on you folks it's when you talk about guitars.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Britpop fairly directly killed Take That by offering Robbie a way out of the band, and then by revealing the then irrelevance of a Robbie-less TT.

[byebyepride.livejournal.com]

Also Robbie did manage to play the 'rock-pop' card vs his 'pop for girls' past; I think some of the rock values of Britpop helped with this. The connection to now seems vaguely superficial though: if there's a shift against xeno-pop (was it ever that big?) it may also involve a rhetorical / musical appeal to retro-rock values, but under totally different conditions.

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

the limit i think on the appeal to "retro-rock" values is that its such a paperthin trad-dad version of them -- in a weird way i think it actually has the same effect as xeno's use of guitars, viz as a dab of sound-colour, than a portal opened into a vast strange secret world

(also xeno use BLUESY guitars -- which really IS a portal -- whereas the retro-rock thing is generally popu non-blues guitar, a portal back to a slammed door) (ok that is a HUGE and probably unsupportable generalisation)

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

haha note that here the term "trad dad" means "in-the-tradition-of-G04" rather than "in-the-tradition-of-BBKing"

[carsmilesteve.livejournal.com]

haha i read that as "in-the-tradition-of-G4" which is different again...

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

It was a glorious death rather than a shameful shuffling off but certainly at the time anyone could see the split coming (which was partly WHY there was such a kerfuffle - the fans had had plenty of time to plan (even if subconsciously) the tearful send-off). I don't know - cos I can't remember - whether Robbie's leaving was similarly predictable, but maybe it was too.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

but why did they pull the plug? they saw the signs re lesser force without Robbie who was clearly being lured away by wanting to sound more like Britpop/pubrock at the time ('Freedom' was just a throwaway tactic to bank on a strong start chart-wise). i think the theory just about holds.

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

Not exactly on topic, but I am also reminded how Andy Bell from Ride went from shoegazer to Gallagher-imitator w/Hurricane #1 as well. So I think its fair to talk about Britpop sweeping lots of other stuff off the market.