A kung fu fighter in a disco

Soft Cell v Breeders - neither of these should be here, especially as I would bet that whatever they knocked out in the last round is amazing. They're both OK, I voted Breeders because they indirectly led to Ashlee and Lindsay, while Soft Cell led to Rihanna's worst song and lots of lame Scandipop.

Cyndi is no match for Neneh.

Surprisingly easy tick for Salt'n'Pepa over K8 - mostly because I don't think this is anywhere near K8's peak, and I much prefer 'Hounds Of Love'. I can't actually see myself ticking against 'Push It', except maybe if it comes up against Madge.

Cameo over Deee-Lite, does what 'Groove Is In The Heart' does but sexier and less 'wacky'.

PSB v Xtina - SO HARD. Both really 'important' debut singles which both acts would go on to trump many times over as they became more confident and ambitious, but these are their ROOTS! I think I ticked Xtina because 'Genie' fizzes in a way 'West End Girls' doesn't.

Haha was it Amerie v KLF in the last round? I remember agonising over that. Both are much better than 'Toxic'; I think I went with Amerie last time and will do so again.

From:

Oh yeah and there is the OTHER fight which I shall not dignify with even calling a fight. If there is an true poptimism in any of you Missy will win by like 50-0. As I can sadly see this is not the case.

From:

And I listened to 'Ghost Town' AGAIN and it passed me by without any impact of note AGAIN.

From:

jauntyalan.livejournal.com

do you ever think "pulling at a door that pushes open"?

From:

dubdobdee.livejournal.com

GRIZZLED GRANDAD SPEAKS OUT but the kids on the hackney bus larf and point and PUSH HIM OVER THE TOP OF HIS ZIMMERFRAME

From:

But Ghost Town >>> Billie Jean. I mean, it's about real stuff instead of Annie, I'm not your daddy. And it's the SPECIALS, who are infinitely cooler. Two Tone Specials >>> It don't matter if you're black or white.

From:

The Billie Jean stuff really happened to MJ, didn't it?

We established last time that "Ghost Town" is about the rubbish midlands club scene, which is also real of course.

From:

Celebrity baby whinging is not quite the same as late70s/early80s gritty industrialism. I didn't think it was just about clubs, but decline of manufacturing and no jobs and Thatcherism and stuff. Maybe I read too much into it. Plus, spooky music!

From:

I prefer Ghost Town too FWIW. (And yes all that stuff is in it too - in general though I think that stuff doesn't suit the pop song medium half as well as worrying about a girl claiming to have fathered yr kid)

From:

I'd certainly be worried if some girl was claiming to have fathered my kid....

From:

I don't see the immediate link between Tainted Love and Scandopop!

OTM on Cameo and Deee-Lite I think.

From:

Though to be fair Larry Blackmon is no stranger to a particular kind of 'wacky'. (the kind involving CODPIECES). But yeah he disturbed me and enthralled me and made me laugh whereas - even though the song is good - Lady Miss Kier and co. were always slightly annoying. (In the same way as Andre 3000 is! Clearly I am an uptight square who resents bohos.)

From:

I love Deee-Lite but I wish they'd released some more decent stuff. I have their "greatest hits" albumen, which has a couple of good trax, but nothing like Groove.

From:

Of course it's entirely possible that it's good because it's a rip-off off a Bootsy bass riff, but I've not heard the original in context so I'll leave that one.

From:

koganbot

I voted Breeders because they indirectly led to Ashlee and Lindsay

This is an intriguing statement. I'd heard Ashlee and Lindsay as Alanis-Sheryl rock-leaning singer-songwriter types - for Ashlee add Courtney - embracing power-pop and dance-pop melodies, with Melissa Etheridge's former guitar player melding it all together for them and tossing in a bit of hair metal. Or, if you want to trace it back further, think Dylan and Joni embracing garage rock and girl groups.

From:

Isn't Alanis a descendant of the Breeders herself though? And Courtney clearly seems to be, to me. I wouldn't call either Ashlee or Lindsay descendants of Sheryl, they're not inoffensively MOR enough, Sheryl has never been about the Punk Rock.

(Ashlee and Lindsay seem to take their most immediate cues from Avril, whose Breeders-style punk influences seem more obvious.)

From:

koganbot

I'm still not following. It's Courtney's singing that Ashlee's taking off on, which has nothing to do with Kim's on "Cannonball," which is mostly this girly dreaminess, w/ punky squeaks thrown in. Courtney precedes the Breeders and is coming from Sex Pistols and hardcore and - ultimately - the Stones (Grace Slick a key predecessor but don't know if she was an influence; if you're looking for punk-as-such female-vocal influences on Courtney they're probably Patti Smith and Poly Styrene and Joan Jett). I don't know. Are there interviews where Courtney is citing Kim? I'm not hearing an iota of "Cannonball" in "You Oughta Know," either. Alanis's marbles-in-the-mouth-harshness was there in her early '90s dancepop tracks, believe it or not. She precedes the Breeders too, and I don't think she got the singing style from Black Francis. Maybe from Dory Previn and Marianne Faithfull and k8. She reminds me of Dolores O'Riordan a lot more than of Kim Deal, actually. I don't own any Breeders albums, so maybe haven't heard the right Kim Deal vocals, but from what I have heard Kim's deliberately low on affect, not going for the riot grrrrl squawl or the cutting angry-singer-songwriter bitchout. And I don't hear anything remotely like Kim in Avril's singing, either. Why would you think Kim rather than, I don't know, Heart or Stevie Nicks?

I tie Ashlee to Alanis more through lyrics - Ashlee says that "You Learn" was one of her favorite songs when she was ten: the woman on a self-critical adventure through life and boyfriends, Ashlee (or Ashlee-Kara-John) being Alanis with a brain.

From:

koganbot

I wouldn't call either Ashlee or Lindsay descendants of Sheryl, they're not inoffensively MOR enough, Sheryl has never been about the Punk Rock.

You're looking too much at the signifiers. Look at album credits, and start with the name John Shanks.

This is a whole other story, but the Punk Rock Movement and the punk rock I love are pretty much at odds with another, the former doing great damage to the latter. I mean, Stevie Nicks is MOR rock (forget the adjective "inoffensive"; it's a red herring; like, inoffensive to whom?), and she once called herself the anti-punk, which just means she's got no self-knowledge, because she can virulent in both word and groove and she's way more punk rock to me than the Clash are. (Doesn't mean the Clash are worse than she is. Just that they're doing something different.)

From: