Jop Tournament Round 1.8

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Here we are again!


[Poll #923143]


Tomorrow - last few fites, Kate Bush in action both real and sampled, plus Britney, Blondie, Sinead and more.

Comments

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

Hating things because you hear them too much = indie :) Actually, voting for Madonna tracks because they're Madonna tracks (as several people are certainly doing) is what makes Madge the flag-bearer of indie here.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Andrew, sorry, this is complete bollocks.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I think he's right in that some people may be voting for Madonna tracks because they're Madonna tracks. But that's not a bad or wrong thing to do, surely?

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Well I think a lot of people are voting for the horrid rock songs because they're rock! It seems perfectly natural to me that people would vote for PDP because it is a gazillion times better, regardless of it being Madge.

[dickmalone.livejournal.com]

I voted for the Breeders because I didn't listen to music until 1989, so I tend to pick 90s stuff over 80s stuff.

[boyofbadgers.livejournal.com]

No, it's called being a fan. Which is hardly an exclusively indie thing.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

i love 'Cannonball' and 'Papa Don't Preach' equally but Madonna gets the nod cos I think it's More Pop.

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

This is actually a quite interesting question, but difficult. Being willfully blind to a good song just because it's not Madonna (e.g.) doesn't seem very Poptimist. This is not a great fite to be having the debate on because don't most of us agree that PDP really is Quite Good, we just differ on how good (or we are tired of it)?

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Well Poptimism doesn't necessarily mean an Olympian judgement on the merits of a piece of music divorced from its context. My personal brand of Poptimism tends to enjoy liking (or certainly ticking) something I wasn't expecting to like/tick more than something I am settled in my appreciation of, which is why I often vote against stuff like "Toxic" in these fites (and "Common People" for that matter).

(This isn't a wilful or 'indie' thing. All it means is my criteria is usually "Which would I be more excited to hear RIGHT NOW?" not "Which is better?" This is also why the marks on Popular can be erratic)

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

i have used the RIGHT NOW method more and more i suppose. or maybe i always did, hard to know 4 sure.

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

It does mean that you're actually considering both songs, though. Pop listening, like dancing, being about more than just The Music. And more than just "Oh it's Madonna, I'd better tick that."

(I realise I'm not telling you anything you don't know, just saying that I agree (or think I do), and it's part of what I was trying to say)

I have several times in this tournament (which is much more enjoyable than the NOW one, for some reason), switched a vote because I came back to a close match and got a buzz of joy from seeing This Song had pulled ahead of That Song (not always related to the Lex's response to this result).

Are you still standing behind "There are no bad reasons for liking music", by the way?

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

which is much more enjoyable than the NOW one, for some reason

It is BIGGER and MORE COMPLICATED

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Am I still standing behind it? Erm, yeah, mostly. I mean, if somebody who didn't like Paris Hilton prior to seeing her being a racist on a video was to say "Right! Hurrah! As a racist myself I can now like Paris!", then that would be bad. But on the other hand the general principle - "I like this music because I sympathise with the person who makes it" - isn't an awful reason.

I'm happy to be proved wrong though.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

Thing is I already knew Paris had dubious attitude re racialism prior to 'Stars Are Blind' but i ticked that song in the top 40 poll anyway. OH NOES, ENO WAS RIGHT (or whatever it is).

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

"Quite Good" was probably the wrong turn of phrase to use. Another way I define my poptismism is liking a song regardless of who's done it or how or why (which I guess is in some ways means totally divorced from its context). And "good" in that context would be "measurable" on the basis of how broad a group of people liked it.

Given that most of these songs are Good, I would guess that a lot of us are using RIGHT NOW criteria.

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

See below for the first point, but voting for Madonna tracks on principle is no different than voting for Supergrass tracks on principle. You might disagree that people are doing this, but it's an unpoptimist thing to do.

[boyofbadgers.livejournal.com]

Eh? Getting bored of a record is not indie, nor is being a fan.

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

I was joking, but getting bored of a record is a function of the record as well as frequency, surely? Disliking something just because lots of people like it and will dance to it every week (I'm assuming it would be taken off rotation if it was a floor-clearer) would be the essense of indie. Not that I'm actually accusing you of this.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

No, it wouldn't. Any more than getting fed up of the Glasshouse Stores if you always ended up going there would be 'indie'. Dancing to pop is a social context as well as a music one.

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

Bearing in mind that I've never understood the London disdain for picking a pub and sticking to it...

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Erm because environment can impact interaction in interesting and unpredictable ways?!

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

But so can lots of things! I never had a dull night in Dublin, where 75% of the time we would end up in the Lord Edward (paucity of options also a factor, I suppose), and I can't think of any time off the top of my head where which pub we were in had much of an effect on enjoyment in London.

Which is all a tangent anyway.

[awesomewells.livejournal.com]

Why would anyone in their right mind want to drink in the same pub all the time when there are hundreds of them out there?

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

that's not active/conscious disdain tho, it's just that everybody has their 'needs'. i agree tho in that it is infuriating when a pub is suggested but then one or two others crop up following that, with no real good reason.