a fight for the soul of poptimism...

[byebyepride.livejournal.com]

...has broken out on this thread. Since I am now using 'poptimist' with scare quotes, it may be possible that I am about to publicly 'break' with 'the' 'movement'. :-)

Comments

[juror8.livejournal.com]

"Current music: Mountain Goats"

You already have.

[byebyepride.livejournal.com]

hardly.

[byebyepride.livejournal.com]

i.e. not what but how.

[zenith.livejournal.com]

In any schism I am with cis and Tim Finney, I think.

It's very telling that people who have clearly completely taken over ILX/ILM still use "ilx" as the word to describe the opinions of the people they want to have a go at, in order to make themselves seem like iconoclasts striking against the consensus - "ilx in liking Paris shockah".

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

It's brilliant! 100+ posts of people being dumb and mean and not-funny and then suddenly the VANGUARD APPEARS in the form of Cis and Tim and Alex T who is not breaking with the movement at all because he is on ours side.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

This has been happening since about 6 months in!

[byebyepride.livejournal.com]

I am on the side of truth.

If truth means 'what I think'.

[byebyepride.livejournal.com]

I am pulling the same trick re: poptimism today. It is an old game.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

yeh i really hate this. would like to ban anyone who writes 'shockah' from now on (even myself).

[byebyepride.livejournal.com]

ha ha -- also 'ILX' in all being 'rockism is so over, dude we all dig that pop shit too' except when it's paris when they're all like 'dude, you like this shit?'

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

I am entirely behind the theory except the album is lousy :(

stevem in 'hating shockah' shockah!

[byebyepride.livejournal.com]

(sorry)

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I actually have 0 idea why Paris gets so hated on (by poptimists and rockists alike) - is her sleb persona really that repulsive? It really isn't to me. She's no more vapid than Britney or Kylie, but I think because they've both been around forever they've been accepted more than she has.

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

1. Inherited Wealth
2. First fame bump for Sex Video
3. Participated in TV programs whose point was how stupid/rich she was.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I don't understand how any of this is particularly repulsive though.

1. Lily Allen to thread
2. Erm, she comes off as the victim here? It's not a very nice thing to have done to you, your sleazy ex selling a video of you having sex
3. again what is wrong with being stupid/rich? lots of great popstars have been both. and they were programmes which many people seemed to enjoy.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Well #2 is misogyny, which we can roll our eyes about but it's silly to pretend doesn't play a part in people's judgement.

#3 you're missing Andrew's point - most people enjoyed those programmes because the point of them was to LAUGH AT PARIS! i.e.

"Paris thinks she can work on a farm. Have a laugh at her getting it wrong in an endearing fashion."

is not a HUGE step from

"Paris thinks she can make a record. Have a laugh at her getting it wrong in an endearing fashion."

That is the pre-arranged media script for the album. You are departing quite strongly from it and getting people's back up, in the same way as someone being serious at an office party might.

[jauntyalan.livejournal.com]

even lorraine kelly calls Paris H an "oxygen stealer"

[cis.livejournal.com]

Like Tom says, misogyny is heavily in action on #2 - the version of events where it's her sleazy ex selling off a video, which is the one you and I subscribe to, isn't necessarily what people think of: instead it's "she took part in a sex video (slut) and then took advantage of the notoriety she got off the back of it rather than being too ashamed to ever show her face in public again (like a nice girl would)".

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

But wasn't the point of the programme that Paris neither thought she could work on a farm nor particularly cared?

When I talked to her PR he said he wanted people to treat it like they would the Xtina album. And it hasn't actually been savaged by critics particularly.

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

1) Dude, people totally mark Lily Allen down because of her dad! But more to the point I can't imagine that being Keith Allen's daughter is an unending pot of riches. Crucially she wasn't famous before her career started (IE not in the "out on the town" magazines that were Paris's pre-Fame fame) and crucially crucially she's outgrown that - her musical income now dwarfs any pocketmoney she recieves from her dad, which I can't imagine is the case for Paris. Which is the thing that causes the problem, the idea that she doesn't NEED us to like her, she could go back to just being mind-bogglingly rich.

2) She's famous because of a sex video, it's a mark against her in the eyes of many who are more prudish than they'd claim. Also her (expert) riding of this to greater fame is seen as buying into it.

3) My point exactly(ish) - I meant to say that a part of this is that it was her second fame bump - IE people hate that it worked! Though the particular combination of rich/stupid that rankles is a ignorance and disinterest in how the lower classes live - contrary to your belief the diva is not in fact a widely-loved archetype (particularly when there's no identification - people who rose are obviously given an easier time than those who were born on cloud nine)

I have to stop using so many dashes.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Lex a PR who tells journalists, "Go on then, have a laugh at my client", is not going to keep their job very long!!! (or is AWESOMELY clever if they do!)

[awesomewells.livejournal.com]

The thing I am concerned about before weighing more heavily into this debate is how many blowjob clips I am going to have to negotiate whilst attempting to download this album.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

But that's really horrible though.

(have been reading many articles about how feminism has regressed over the past decade, and many things are acceptable now which weren't in the 90s; i agree, and blame lads' mags)

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I would recommend judicious use of track titles in yr search string, certainly.

[awesomewells.livejournal.com]

Clearly we will not be able to resolve this properly until the arrival of the PEACHES GELDOF album.

Also Lex, why is it that you are so pro-Paris Hilton 2006 for being all "I am a hugely famous and fancied celebrity but I really need true love" and so anti-Robbie Williams 1996 whose early records addressed that exact same theme AND challenged the listener to reassess the singer's baggage in the same way?