When Britain refused to listen

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

'Not heard it' is one of the more common comments read when the Top 40 polls are posted. Which is perhaps the most unsatisfying answer that can be given. Lots of people can say they've heard every single in the Top 40, provided they'd listened to JK & Joel that particular week. Although they may not necessarily remember all of them the next day...

But, if you 'haven't heard it', bloody why not?! I personally stopped listening to the Top 40 countdown in full around the same time as I started University - some ten years ago now. As you grow up it seems life gets more and more in the way, preventing you from having the same ease of control you may have previously enjoyed when it comes to making choices as a young viewer or listener. So far so obvious, and it seems this is the real reason why the Poptimists electorate are often at a loss to decide whether a recent Top 40 hit is good or bad based on how it sounds. There are other factors too such as the nature in which media has changed since then - dedicated music video channels, t'internet (esp. portals/filters/resources such as youtube and itunes) and downloading facilities...all things intended to make the pursuit of hearing music easier. But, it's not really working that well is it? At least, not for 'people old enough to know better' who seem to be ageing faster than the technology is progressing, and that's pretty terrifyingly fast. It's all too much. But, really, aren't these just excuses? Is this sort of reasoning good enough? Should we take it as a given that the charts are reasonably constant in terms of quality (regardless of the ebb and flow of sales figures)? Should a Poptimist be putting more effort in? It's not meant to be a chore after all.

I'm interested in any serious views people may have about the whole thing, so the question(s) be as follows:

What is your current attitude to pop (however you define it) and new music? Are you keen to hear as much of it as you can or do you prefer to revel in nostalgia (or perhaps some healthy balance of both)? Where do you turn to, specifically, now to find out about new music anyway? If you DO know every song in the top 40 any given week does this just make you a Chart Geek rather than a Pop Lover now? Do you even care about music or are you just one of those disgusting poll-fetishists I've heard about?

EH?

Comments

I BLAME THE ABSENCE OF POPTIMISM

[jauntyalan.livejournal.com]

no regular fix. no radio listen. popworld rub. top of the pops on the weekend. bah

Re: I BLAME THE ABSENCE OF POPTIMISM

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

but we don't NEEEED TV or radio no more innit!

i have a huge massive giant deferral problem...

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

... i horde stuff to listen/view/engage with LATER but "my" response = ALWAYS requires a scan of and triangulation against the "general" responses pro and con

I AM HEGEL IT SUX :(

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

My answer to this is twofold really:

- since working in an office where we have the radio on my urge to chase down and hear new chartpop has dwindled, because I hear a lot anyway but (as I keep saying) the fvcking DJs never tell you what anything is nowadays.

- WRT video channels, youtube etc, I am a very non-visual person I think, for whatever reason I just don't pay much attention to videos. I don't think I've ever followed a link to a video, I just wait for the MP3 instead. This makes me a very non-typical pop consumer, even more so than age/gender/buying habits might.

[thenipper.livejournal.com]

re: DJs not identifying tracks - perhaps they are all in cahoots with Shazam (http://www.shazam.com/music/portal/)?

more dialectical mentalism

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

one of the "good" fx of ysi being seven days only = i do actually DL w/i livin memory of everyone else doin so BUT i kinda hate this and often don't listen while i DL and just file away in itunes and wait on it popping up at random on PARTYMIX

[miss-newham.livejournal.com]

I don't enjoy Radio One any more since Mark and Lard left so have moved to Radio 2, where new pop singles take longer to filter through to the playlist. Also, I don't know where you folks get hold of your music - it took me weeks to hear the new Nelly Furtado song you were all raving about months ago, and it's only just got to the A-list on pop radio stations. Also, I am busy discovering the joyful back catalogue of pop at the moment, after having steadfastly listened to new stuff throughout my younger years. But I'm sorry, and please stop shouting at me!

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

I guess with Nelly it was a case of word-of-mouth via blogs. If you're regularly reading certain blogs you can be up on new pop quiet quickly as the bloggers are usually getting the promo CDs well in advance, what with many bloggers being pro critics.

[thenipper.livejournal.com]

There's a disconnect between "fans of new music" and the charts partly because you can hear + download leaked stuff so much far in advance of release dates that the actual release and chart performance becomes a brief coda to the music's life, rather than the whole drama - as it once was.

Also, I guess, a lot of poptimists listens to tonnes'o exciting new music - from microhouse to indie to folk or whatever - that never gets within a sniff of the charts.

Also the freeview pop channels - Ver Hits and TMF - seem to present a pretty skewed view of what is actually in the charts. I imagine they are both heavily riddled w/payola. (Actually E4 music may be the best - but it seems to have been replaced for live streaming of BB).

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

yeh the download/release conflict is a good point, altho in a way this should mean people are more familiar with the songs when they do chart.

i guess the charts reflect something a little different to the ethos behind poptimists i.e. there's a lot of indie-rock about at the moment. of course in practice poptimists is more partial to this than it may like to admit but you know, reputation to uphold and all that...

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

Also, I guess, a lot of poptimists listens to tonnes'o exciting new music - from microhouse to indie to folk or whatever - that never gets within a sniff of the charts.

Ding ding ding!

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

- no music channels or indeed TV
- no internet

Those are the basic reasons, as they're the places where I used to be able to keep up (I never listen to the radio anyway). BUT ever since the top 40 went completely irrelevant (which I trace back to Will S stopping the top 40 columns - also the internationalism of the jukebox hasn't helped) it's become quite hard to track what actually gets in it and mop up any interesting-looking ones which had passed me by.

The reasons which have cropped up in the past few months which probably mean that even with internet and TV I'd find it hard to keep up with the charts:

- spending all the time I do allocate to tracking stuff down on hott new electrohouse bobbins
- am on more and more PR mailing lists and even cursory listens to new stuff are hard to fit in
- since CD singles became more or less irrelevant it seems that the amount of interesting-looking stuff in the charts has also diminished somewhat
- also since the Britrock revival

Narrow playlists

[lockedintheatti.livejournal.com]

On TV in particular, the increase in number of music channels makes it harder to keep up to date - they all have a narrow genre-focus and hence a much smaller playlist, so you'd need to constantly flick between all of them to keep up to date, whereas in the days of The Box vs MTV you could get to hear most songs that way.

Radio stations don't have huge playlists either so unless you listen lots you'll miss out too.

Plus - the interwebs have made it much easier to listen to all kinds of new music from all over the world, much of which never gets anywhere near the chart. Thanks to that I feel like I'm in the rather off position of listening to more new music now than I ever have done in my life and yet still end up knowing less of the chart than ever - and it's not that my tastes are significantly less pop, just that UK chart pop is a decreasing proportion of the total pop I get to hear.

Re: Narrow playlists

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

"and it's not that my tastes are significantly less pop, just that UK chart pop is a decreasing proportion of the total pop I get to hear."


very good point. the Uk charts ARE still reasonably diverse i think, but we're all more aware now of the broader range of stuff out there and it's commercial potential (or potential in other areas?).

[byebyepride.livejournal.com]

Listening to the radio a lot doesn't currently fit into my routine -- I often try and listen to the charts and catch some or all of it, but while doing something else. I don't feel particularly upset if I haven't heard some current 'hit' record: I listen to radio 1 often enough that the really good things (or really irritating things) stand out. I check the interweb most at work, and briefly; whereas in the past I would have been able to dl something someone had raved about instantly (unless they YSI it), now I'm likely to forget about it and it will take a while for something to register as an 'essential' listen. All this might change if for example I start working from home a bit more over the summer.

My notion of poptimism does not revolve around a slavish devotion to fashion, and I have a deeply conflicted position with regard to contemporary opinion and popular culture -- I tend to react against it, while being aware that it's not exactly wrong. I will not apologise for it, since this seems to me to replicate patterns of response to something like the public realm of chatter found in almost all of the modern (i.e. post-romantic, i.e. post-Rousseau) intellectuals I admire.

I don't watch much TV and we only have free video channels and I hate adverts so tend to turn them off; I often see videos on MTV in the gym but I would rather listen to my ipod there so can't always connect music to pictures (this happened with the Fallout Boy single).

I think the idea -- which I think you're half joking about -- that we all ought to be obliged to spend 'enough' time chasing the cultural forth of capital is insane and deeply unpleasant; I'm repeating myself I know, but I take poptimism to be as applicable to someone who only listens to 70s prog rock or only likes hair metal and Mozart, as it is to someone who gets all indie about the charts. The cult of the new, the attempt to be 'with it', 'up with the latest trends', 'down with the scene' etc. seems to me a bit wearing. One of the good things about the web communities I've interacted with is the way they generate their own cultural world based on a combination of new and old things. The polls presumably build in to this, but I see them more as an excuse for a natter than anything in themselves. (Heresy! I've never been as into lists and formulae as freakytigger for example...)

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Yes, the polls are good mostly cos they regularly generate huge clouds of chat - which occasionally brings up other interesting issues that might have lain fallow or been phrased vaguely if they hadn't emerged from a specific context.

Once we finish the Now polls I'm toying with using the format for Virgin's "Best...Ever" albums which would allow us windows onto more specific genres.

L4M4CQ CAN SVCK MY C0CK TILL I CVM BL00D

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

haha i have a "shameful" confession to make wrt radio one but so far the margin has been too small ect ect

[cis.livejournal.com]

I used to listen to the charts of a sunday afternoon until JK and Joel came along and rendered them unlistenable: I've the same problem with daytime radio1, where the only dj I can stand is Jo Whiley and most days when she's on air I'm in classes. Often the mood will strike to listen to the radio, I'll turn it on (well, click 'listen live' usually), and either the song will be unbearable or Colin Murray will open his mouth and that'll be it. So radio for me == radio three, radio four. New chart music comes via The Hits or TMF (my house in digibox'd and most social time involves one of these two on the in background), so if it's not on one of those I just won't get to hear about it, and since I haven't been watching TV recently I'm completely out of the chart loop. Well, the UK chart loop - I'm quite good on the japanese charts, where pretty much every top20 single will have had its music video put on youtube by someone. It helps, also, that I really enjoy this one japanese chart rundown programme where they get comedians to perform songs from the top ten - and that my distance from the japanese charts means I enjoy them as an easy-to-predict game rather than something which affects me personally (as I kind of felt the uk charts did).

The splintering of media might make hearing new music, or music new to you, easier, but I think it's adversely affecting this thing 'chart pop', which kind of needs to be a monolith in order to work.

So instead I go to the backlog on iTunes, things I've bought and not listened to in full yet or downloaded and not listened to yet, or things I've listened to but not since I got the powerbook, in genres which aren't current chart pop, and I almost feel guilty for listening to 2hour dj sets (or bach partitas xd) when I could be getting through a couple of albums, and I barely ever listen to an album more than one time in a week, and I check my audioscrobbler profile to see if the weekly chart's updated, and...

[lockedintheatti.livejournal.com]

JK & Joel and Chris Moyles combined to drive me away from Radio 1 for the first time in my life, and into the welcoming arms of Lauren Laverne. I like her so much that I now tune more regularly to XFM and find myself for the first time more up to date with indie than 'classic' pop and r&b.

Poptimists Participation Probe

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

# of watchers: 115
# of members: 99
# of participants in canons: up to 45-50
# of participants in Shine/Now polls: up to 40-45 (some Shine polls get voters bussed in from brane's monster friendlist)
# of participants in singles polls: about 25
# of participants in Pop World Cup: around 11-15 :(

This says something about the relative amounts of work involved in liking a band/nostalgia/being up to date/listening to new foreign music, I guess.

Re: Poptimists Participation Probe

[byebyepride.livejournal.com]

This says something about the relative amounts of work involved in liking a band/nostalgia/being up to date/listening to new foreign music, I guess.

Spot-on I think.

It would be a shame if 'poptimists' were to = 'nostalgia'; but I think with the PWC the complication is 'download'; 'remember to listen to'; 'remember to vote' i.e. three stages, which for many people will have to happen on different computers -- lj round here seems to be very much limited to work day times. Whereas a poll = insta-gratification.

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

I watch a fair bit of Hits!TV, but they play an awful lot of older stuff (not a bad thing, by any means!) and mostly only the RnB end of pop. I haven't heard any of the recent indieBritrockband singles as I don't listen to Xfm anymore (combination of poor radio reception in the East End and a growing preference toward the music played on the pirates).

If my werk firewall didn't block youtube/myspace I would be on there all the time listening to new stuff. As it is I spend quite a lot of time on artist websites and juno/beatport. I want to hear this SuperJupiter song but I CAN'T GET TO IT. GET ONE NEW JOB KAT.

[the-roofdog.livejournal.com]

Before I moved in with katstevens, I was unaware that musicians may commission short films over which they play their new composition.


I still don't really see the point, tbh.

[thenipper.livejournal.com]

I think Billy the Swygg should do a weekly young person's "Podcast" of the top 40 highlights to help us all keep in touch.

[jauntyalan.livejournal.com]

i would listen to this

my personal pop-picking rounds

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

I read ILM, Popjustice, friends LJs and every now and then a handful of blogs
- I feel this is too limited a range of sources and am looking to expand it

Homechoice digital TV music service lets you view all the latest videos (it adds more on the fly, every few days) in sequence if you choose. I love doing this, even thought for 25 or so videos there'll only be a couple I like in any given fortnight.

No magazines read or radio shows listened to at the mo. I still think of this as a bad thing - I'm not looking to free myself of this guilt, interestingly.

I think TOTP has really lost it's thrill even though Pop hasn't, for me. But as I've said before I would absolutely love to see an exciting new format of The Chart Show - much more befitting of the times potentially I think. More insightful documentation and reportage of Pop Music on TV (not this cheap cheerful cosy fishbowl style of Popworld) would be more inspiring too I really think.

Re: my personal pop-picking rounds

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

If I had the internet I would:

- Use slsk to download everything ever mentioned on the various bobbins threads
- Use Myspace NOT to discover new bands but to hear what established artists currently have on offer eg this is how I heard recent singles from LL Cool J, Ashlee Simpson &c
- Go to a couple of mp3 blogs but not v many as there are far too many of the things
- Definitely not visit Racistjustice ever because it's racist and I don't go to the KKK or 4ry4n N4tion site do I? And Pete B agrees with me on this!

MP3s

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Something I have long thort about for Poptimists is an MP3 of the day - spanning pop-time and pop-space, with a quick word on why you might want to hear it. Including, in other words, an "MP3 Blog" aspect for the community.

Of course I wouldn't be able to contribute more than 1 in 5 of these, probably no more than 1 in 10. But is it a good idea or is this place best kept free of the MP3 Blog taint?

Re: MP3s

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

I would welcome more mp3dom

It's 50/50 whether it encourages or discourages more discussion...

[jeff-worrell.livejournal.com]

What is your current attitude to pop (however you define it) and new music? Are you keen to hear as much of it as you can or do you prefer to revel in nostalgia (or perhaps some healthy balance of both)? Where do you turn to, specifically, now to find out about new music anyway?

I like to consume as much as possible. But I have no computer at home (and have to use a communal stand alone PC to d/l stuff at work) so ability to make use of online sources is accordingly limited. Also radio at work = out of the question.

Similarly, TV viewing is currently limited to what's available on the free channels. So e.g. no MTV.

I listen to the last hour of the Sunday Top 40 show on R1 when I remember to. But I agree w/ others that current presenters have made it almost unlistenable.

Consequently, most exposure to new music is still the result of buying stuff. I still purchase about 2-3 CDs a week on average. A mixture of new and old stuff.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Haha I love that this post got to 70+ comments before anyone even MENTIONED this 'buying' lark you speak of!

[koganbot]

Bloody why not?
(1) Live in a foreign country
(2) Am dysfunctional and therefore can't afford broadband
(3) Launch Yahoo blocks me from seeing/listening to the British tracks (but for some reason lets me do Germany and Italy)
(4) Yes, I know this thing called "streaming" but... [tries to think of some excuse]
(5) Compulsive aversion to Shayne Ward
(6) DJs don't give song titles
(7) Smash Hits stream doesn't give song titles. This is really irritating since all they've got to do is put the title, they don't have to say anything, what the fuck is their problem? To find titles I have to pluck lyrics while listening and do a lightning-fast google.
(8) Other stuff to listen to.

[koganbot]

There is no poptimism, only poptimists.

But surely what makes us the way we are is:

(1) "What are you guys going on about?... [grumble grumble] [sotto voce:] guess I've got to listen to it."

(2) Are in contact with more than one other human being.

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

Another interesting discussion, albeit one that may be too long to read at this point.

What is your current attitude to pop (however you define it) and new music? Are you keen to hear as much of it as you can or do you prefer to revel in nostalgia (or perhaps some healthy balance of both)? Where do you turn to, specifically, now to find out about new music anyway?

I never listen to the radio, partially because I get very frustrated with presenters, repetition, commercials, etc. (Even in the car, I listen to news/talk radio!)

I haven't watched MTV (except in random passing, e.g., video comes on for song I already like and I watch for 20 minutes) for years. But even when TOTP was terrible, I still watched reasonably regularly, partially to hear things I wouldn't normally listen to, and partially because even couple of weeks there would be something I didn't know. My main complaints had more to do with the way charts worked - no surprises of people working their way up the charts, and too much Kyle/Madonna/Beyonce/Robbie on EVERY EFFING week.

Fundamentally, though, I am still constantly on the listen for new thing, and my discoveries are through the usual online sources (e.g., yesterday i listened to Ellen Allien).

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

as we lengthen, our tolerance seems to shorten re DJs, presenters etc. - and some of us start believing we could do a better job than them (at least behind the scenes ;) - sometimes this is even true.

the entire presenter nature changed within last 20 years - now even if they are on the radio they must be attractive in some way (look some people think Chris Moyles has a 'nice face' ok?)

[byebyepride.livejournal.com]

And of course it's much more likely that prog-rock guy is getting off on his musical isolationism just as much as 'now-ness' guy is getting off on now-ness. So the example probably falls down -- my idea of a poptimist as someone almost wholly unaware of the social dimension is almost certainly counter-factual i.e. no-one could find a 'real' poptimist anywhere. But that doesn't make it entirely useless.

[darkpigeon.livejournal.com]

i try and check out new music through
- last fm and pandora
- support bands
- podcasts

These tend to rarely correspondend with traditional "pop" though

[jauntyalan.livejournal.com]

i hope lastFM does this, but so far i've only had one suprise that's led to a cd purchase

[if72.livejournal.com]

'Lots of people can say they've heard every single in the Top 40, provided they'd listened to JK & Joel that particular week'

I had a quick look and didn't see anyone else pointing this out, but they can't. Or at least, they could in many cases only have heard a five second clip talked over patronisingly - I would listen to the top 40 every week when they played every song, and even up to the point where they just played every new entry (ie until JK and Joel took over), but it's now strictly a Radio 1-approved only zone and isn't really worth bothering with.
Much the same thing has happened at around the same times to TOTP actually (which used to pretty much have the six highest new entries of the week), which is maybe interesting with respect to attitudes towards the charts in general.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

oh aye i'd forgotten that they no longer play every single new entry anymore :(

Answers to your questions...

[jel-bugle.livejournal.com]

What is your current attitude to pop (however you define it) and new music?

I know what I like, but I’m not limited to this.

Are you keen to hear as much of it as you can or do you prefer to revel in nostalgia (or perhaps some healthy balance of both)?

I’m keen to hear new music. Though, in the past couple of years I’ve been completing collections – Alice Cooper, Helloween, Iron Maiden, Megadeth, Metallica , Bon Jovi etc.

Where do you turn to, specifically, now to find out about new music anyway?

I watch music channels now and again, free CD’s from Metal Hammer (that’s where I got into a load of newish metal bands), checking the websites of record labels I like (elefant, monika, morr). Just browsing around in record shops/Amazon recommends, flicking through magazines. Album art still has a hold over me. I sort of just take things in…

If you DO know every song in the top 40 any given week does this just make you a Chart Geek rather than a Pop Lover now?

It means you are dedicated to knowing what’s in the Top 40.

Do you even care about music or are you just one of those disgusting poll-fetishists I've heard about?

Of course I care about music!