Soul vs Technique

[datura800.livejournal.com]

I hope he won't mind me quoting him, but I read an interesting assertion in Alex's review of the new Mariah album (today's Guardian):

"Carey's voice has been mocked, bizarrely, as being a triumph of technique over soul - an argument that fails to comprehend that technique and soul are intertwined, that technique primarily exists as a means to convey emotion".

I thought this would be a good discussion to have here - it's a point I quite strongly disagree with (generally, not specifically with relation to Mariah), but I'll wait to see if anyone is interested in commenting before launching into it.

Comments

[awesomewells.livejournal.com]

I'm now wondering whether its a straightforward case of 'technique' vs 'soul' or whether the debate really centres around 'drama' vs 'melodrama'. Do the criticisms boil down to "you have a technically fantastic voice but I don't really believe you*".

I'm also trying to crystallise why this criticism seems to get thrown at Mariah, and maybe sticks, more than it does with, for example, Beyonce.

[datura800.livejournal.com]

Well i think it has been aimed at Beyonce many times, but perhaps one of the reasons for it is that Beyonce has largely made her name with quite cutting-edge songs that crossover into pop and don't really allow her too much room to cut loose vocally, whereas Mariah made her name with big, histrionic power ballads where she turns each syllable into 10 notes?

I mean, Beyonce's vocal on 'Emotions' is painful in terms of the bombastic over-singing, but it's just not something she's really identified with in the main.

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

the weirdly excessive kneejerk unthinking dismissiveness mariah gets -- a sort of pathological inability to connect generously with some thing so blatantly obviously generous in its spirit aned content -- has always fascinated me

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

actual i think some of it is straightforward cultural panic -- "something is going on here and i don't know what it is" being converted into "but i know lots of hip and interesting stuff therefore NOTHING can be going on here"

[datura800.livejournal.com]

I think that is an INCREDIBLY dismissive attitude. In some quarters Mariah is subject to musical snobbery, yes, but I don't think you can dismiss ALL the criticism she receives as being because of that. You seem determined to make the problem one which the listener has, but i think many intelligent, aware listeners find Mariah's vocal style largely bombastic and hollow while not dismissing ALL technically proficient r & b singers.

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

i'm trying to rock back against the specific critique being unfolded here -- which is a pre-manufactured critical cliche of very long-standing, which mariah is the poster child for... i distrust this cliche enormously

[datura800.livejournal.com]

Yeah but I don't think you're separating the general point and the specific criticism of Mariah, and instead seem to be believing that everyone who finds fault with Mariah's vocals is a subscriber to the belief that all technically showy singers are faulty. Which isn't at all the case.

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

fair enough -- i haven't made this clear i agree: there are plenty of GOOD reasons to be critical of mariah (she's super-patchy, for one thing) but the "too many notes" reason acts as a simplified fallback which i think masks other things going on

[datura800.livejournal.com]

well 'too many notes' is just short-hand obviously, but I think it's short-hand for something which is, for many people, all about her vocals and nothing more.

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

and i'm saying "which is a pity bcz it means they're entirely missing the fun of her for not a very good reason in my opinion"

the argument we're having would have a very different shape were it transferred to food ("acquired taste means being brainwashed into liking stuff which i find yucky -- why bother") or sense of humour ("how dare you say i have no sense of humour?" <--- no one in the worlkd thinks they have no sense of humour but really lots of people pretty much don't)

i don't believe it is the case that technique can EVER be empty, i genuinely think this is a bad way to think about technique (or indeed virtuosity) -- obviously it can be inappropriate or misguided or ineffective or annoying or ________ or ________

[datura800.livejournal.com]

I don't think they necessarily are tho - I listen to Mariah, and I downloaded the new album. I'm just saying that I don't find her emotionally engaging (for the most part), but if I only ever listened to music which I found emotionally engaging then I wouldn't listen to many of the artists that I do.

To follow your analogies, if we were talking about painting and I said I found someone who was brilliant at textbook painting techniques to be unengaging and a producer of work without much 'soul' to it, and you replied that I only thought that because of various other concepts of what 'a good painting' is' or whatever, I think that would be more akin to this. I think technique CAN produce work of not much consequence. That doesn't mean I think Mariah ALWAYS does this, or that I cannot enjoy a song which I think is bombastic and empty melodrama, it just means I can appreciate it for what I think it is.

Re: Identifying Technique

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

I've always thought of Mariah as fronting a particularly slushy kind of romantic pop, is the problem. like the Mills & Boon of the genre. Singling her out in this regard may well be unfair but it's precisely because of her technical power as a vocalist (one of the strongest out there for nearly 20 years), and probably her colour to some extent. She's lacked the chameleonic qualities of Madonna and Janet which I've always loved - and has never seemed interested in conveying anger in the way Whitney or Beyonce have, so there's an emotional imbalance in her body of work that also deters I guess.

That lack of 'anger' or 'sass' or attitude rendered her too 'girly' for me to take an interest. She was/is beautiful but not sexy as a result. In the review she is quoted as claiming she's 'eternally 12', which pretty much nails it for me.

Re: Identifying Technique

[sbp.livejournal.com]

Which might explain the pink fluffy jumpers.

[awesomewells.livejournal.com]

Yeah I was going to mention this as well and the only thing I can think of is that people just don't like Mariah. That combination of being by all accounts a manifestly unpleasant person plus stroppy diva to the power of ten is just offputting so people are unwilling to accept "blatantly obviously generous in spirit and content".

Obviously I'm not saying that every great musician has to be a nice person as well but it seems to be writ large across Mariah's public persona to a far greater extent than pretty much any other pop star. It's one she embraces as well.

[awesomewells.livejournal.com]

Accept or believe, I mean. That's why you get accusations of "lacks soul" or "triumph of empty technique" or whatever, its a slightly mean-spirited but understandable trick of using someone's proudest attribute as a stick to beat them with.

[datura800.livejournal.com]

I personally really don't think her behaviour comes into it at all. I think the public are very forgiving of the behaviour of pop stars as long as they're seen to be delivering the goods.

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

Technical virtuosity has never seemed generous to me! For me any music at all is more than I can currently do, but vocals are magic anyway, more indeed god's gift than the result of study*. Which reminds me of a friend pointing out that the problem with a lot of mid-level bands is that the vocalist will not consider putting the same amount of training into what he does than the guitarist has already poured into his craft before he even joined the band.

* Also of course Americans seem to be more comfortable saying "I would like to thank god for my fantastic voice/immense wealth/10-inch penis" than the British.

Short short version "'s just showing off, innit?"

on mariah

[anthonyeaston.livejournal.com]

carl wilson's radical discourse on taste and pop, in terms of celine dion, more applies to mariah i think, esp. the queer and racial subtexts. i am sure you have read it, but if you havent you should

[edgeofwhatever.livejournal.com]

I am curious as to how Mariah is "blatantly obviously generous in both its spirit and its content," since her music has mostly struck me as blatantly obviously not those things.

[sbp.livejournal.com]

I dunno, but all the wibbling about with the voice instead of maybe actually singing the tune is one of the things that turns me off (modern) R&B.

OTOH I like jazz and long guitar solos, so who am I to judge? ;-)