Soul vs Technique

[datura800.livejournal.com]

I hope he won't mind me quoting him, but I read an interesting assertion in Alex's review of the new Mariah album (today's Guardian):

"Carey's voice has been mocked, bizarrely, as being a triumph of technique over soul - an argument that fails to comprehend that technique and soul are intertwined, that technique primarily exists as a means to convey emotion".

I thought this would be a good discussion to have here - it's a point I quite strongly disagree with (generally, not specifically with relation to Mariah), but I'll wait to see if anyone is interested in commenting before launching into it.

Comments

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

actual i think some of it is straightforward cultural panic -- "something is going on here and i don't know what it is" being converted into "but i know lots of hip and interesting stuff therefore NOTHING can be going on here"

[datura800.livejournal.com]

I think that is an INCREDIBLY dismissive attitude. In some quarters Mariah is subject to musical snobbery, yes, but I don't think you can dismiss ALL the criticism she receives as being because of that. You seem determined to make the problem one which the listener has, but i think many intelligent, aware listeners find Mariah's vocal style largely bombastic and hollow while not dismissing ALL technically proficient r & b singers.

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

i'm trying to rock back against the specific critique being unfolded here -- which is a pre-manufactured critical cliche of very long-standing, which mariah is the poster child for... i distrust this cliche enormously

[datura800.livejournal.com]

Yeah but I don't think you're separating the general point and the specific criticism of Mariah, and instead seem to be believing that everyone who finds fault with Mariah's vocals is a subscriber to the belief that all technically showy singers are faulty. Which isn't at all the case.

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

fair enough -- i haven't made this clear i agree: there are plenty of GOOD reasons to be critical of mariah (she's super-patchy, for one thing) but the "too many notes" reason acts as a simplified fallback which i think masks other things going on

[datura800.livejournal.com]

well 'too many notes' is just short-hand obviously, but I think it's short-hand for something which is, for many people, all about her vocals and nothing more.

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

and i'm saying "which is a pity bcz it means they're entirely missing the fun of her for not a very good reason in my opinion"

the argument we're having would have a very different shape were it transferred to food ("acquired taste means being brainwashed into liking stuff which i find yucky -- why bother") or sense of humour ("how dare you say i have no sense of humour?" <--- no one in the worlkd thinks they have no sense of humour but really lots of people pretty much don't)

i don't believe it is the case that technique can EVER be empty, i genuinely think this is a bad way to think about technique (or indeed virtuosity) -- obviously it can be inappropriate or misguided or ineffective or annoying or ________ or ________

[datura800.livejournal.com]

I don't think they necessarily are tho - I listen to Mariah, and I downloaded the new album. I'm just saying that I don't find her emotionally engaging (for the most part), but if I only ever listened to music which I found emotionally engaging then I wouldn't listen to many of the artists that I do.

To follow your analogies, if we were talking about painting and I said I found someone who was brilliant at textbook painting techniques to be unengaging and a producer of work without much 'soul' to it, and you replied that I only thought that because of various other concepts of what 'a good painting' is' or whatever, I think that would be more akin to this. I think technique CAN produce work of not much consequence. That doesn't mean I think Mariah ALWAYS does this, or that I cannot enjoy a song which I think is bombastic and empty melodrama, it just means I can appreciate it for what I think it is.

Re: Identifying Technique

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

I've always thought of Mariah as fronting a particularly slushy kind of romantic pop, is the problem. like the Mills & Boon of the genre. Singling her out in this regard may well be unfair but it's precisely because of her technical power as a vocalist (one of the strongest out there for nearly 20 years), and probably her colour to some extent. She's lacked the chameleonic qualities of Madonna and Janet which I've always loved - and has never seemed interested in conveying anger in the way Whitney or Beyonce have, so there's an emotional imbalance in her body of work that also deters I guess.

That lack of 'anger' or 'sass' or attitude rendered her too 'girly' for me to take an interest. She was/is beautiful but not sexy as a result. In the review she is quoted as claiming she's 'eternally 12', which pretty much nails it for me.

Re: Identifying Technique

[sbp.livejournal.com]

Which might explain the pink fluffy jumpers.