Something said in the pub

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

by thenipper:

"I think Lily Allen and Amy Winehouse have killed Xenomania style pop, in the same way Britpop killed off Take That."

(I paraphrase)

Let's talk about....THE ZEITGEIST of BRITISH POP.

Comments

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

my pre-thought response (based on only a scattered hearing of POP NOW) is

Take That (one-dimensional)* vs Britpop (seemed at the time multi-dimensional)**, so Britpop WON (then became one-dimensional)

Xenomania (multi-dimensional) vs LilyAmy (one-dimensionalish)*** = LilyAmy not in a good place to WIN in the first place

[there are a LOT OF QUESTIONS BEGGED and VULENRABLE CLAIMS in this response]

*This is how i hear em -- compared to eg the Spicers, they have a narrow sound and identity
**ooh controversial -- but I think in the early 90s this argument could be made, that Britpop was offering an OPENING UP not a SHUTTING DOWN (i wz NOT LISTENING AT THE TIME)
***Still not sured if I've heard ANYTHING by la winehouse

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

what i mean by "dimensionality" is i think something like "extent of adaptive resources"

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

Yes that clears it up entirely:) could you expand with particular reference to how Lily Allen has less dimensions than the spice girls? On one level she'd clearly seem to have more simply because she doesn't "just" sing about the usual heart based matters.

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

there's only one of her and she's in charge = less dimensions

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

This makes the Polyphonic Spree the most interesting band in the world! Actually, no, more like Madness... which is perfectly acceptable.

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

who said anything about "interesting"? dimensionality (as i'm using it) is just abt directions you can move in -- hence potential adaptivity -- but the directions could ALL be dull! (i seem to be invoking ASIA a lot today!)

i genuinely think solo artists have a lot less of this (everything is grist to the auteur-central mill): bowie is always bowie (tho unusually sensitive chemistry-wise to the right collaborators) (i think cz there's not much THERE there in terms of actual bowie personality, or anyway confience in persona), bjork always bjork (bowie caveats don't apply), early roxy music operated in a really unusual four-way tension of sensibilities (three once eno left)

(very large groups -- orchestras basically -- tend to have decided against this potential fissiparousness in the process of their formation: you join the orchestra bcz of the project...)

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

Okay, I get it, if you have people pulling in different directions then you can head in different directions (at different times) while still keeping everyone's brand intact?

I picked Madness because it was the subject of an old ILX poll about "for which band is it the most obvious that they have multiple different songwriters writing songs (no not the Beatles, back, back you dogs!)?"

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

It's really UNOBVIOUS with Madness!

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

i think despite Allen's strong 'check it aht i love my dad's record collection more than them premiership pop bitchiz' thing making her seem rooted to certain sound aesthetic there's pretty flat out silly pop like 'Alfie' something like which could have been on 'Spiceworld' if they fancied it.

point about Bowie is v interesting.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

solo artists always seem to be versions of self, no matter how outré their artistic choices, and liable to fall flat if they move too far away from what they are (choice seems to be "being onself again and again" vs "trying on difft clothes which don't actually fit") - this can be a strength though! not always, and not usually over an extended period of time, but if the persona is compelling enough and malleable enough, it can be successful (Tori Amos is my example here but I don't have time right now to expand)

So I guess - the more chameleonic the better? This is why MADGE is so great!

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

everyone is assuming i am saying "adaptive = better quality-wise" but i'm not, i'm saying "adaptive =you are less likely to be er 'killed' by a switch in the taste majeure"

someone can be great and utterly one-dimensional -- they're unlikely to be POP for long though

[dickmalone.livejournal.com]

Yeah, part of Tori's public personality is that she can be whatever personality she wants to be because she's the alpha bitch etc.

[dickmalone.livejournal.com]

(i.e. her changing personas is an expression of her power and control rather than pandering or being indecisive)

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Er neither did the Spice Girls!

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

Okay heart and "solidarity"

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Thing is that while Xenomania themselves may well be adaptive I dunno how adaptive the performers they work with are seen to be (or are)?

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

if not adaptive can't be "plastic" QED

however yes, good point -- also xeno just NOT THAT BIG?