Jop Tournament: Semi Finals

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Nissy vs Madge! Jacko vs Britney! Go go go!

[Poll #931988]

Turnout was down last round, maybe because of all the complicated extra questions (or maybe because people are sick of the poll - almost over now!), so I've kept this one simple.

Oh, comment away of course, but please no chat on the lines of "Who I will vote for in the final" :)

Comments

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[awesomewells.livejournal.com]

The song itself is less important to Toxic than the fact that it's bursting with sound and event from pretty much every corner. Even the best of Britney's previous records lacked that fizz of excitement.

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Yes but this doesn't mark it out from the Britney pantheon! I mean, I agree with most of the praise for 'Toxic', I just don't get why it's the consensus Britney pick over at least six or seven of her other singles.

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[pot80.livejournal.com]

Alex, the thing is, it's the song that totally transcends Britney. The other songs require her context, but "Toxic" is something you can love even if you totally hate Britney Spears, it's that classic and overwhelming.

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Ha, I think this is correct, and you've not only hit on why "everyone" loves it but also why I'm slightly annoyed by/suspicious of/bemused by that love (despite loving it myself!).

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

It transcends Britney only because she had gone through several persona by the time she got to it, and therefore there was nothing to attach to the song.

I think BOTM is a world-beater (Christ, the Travis cover even works!) but it's v. v. difficult for people to separate it from Britney.

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[pot80.livejournal.com]

I think it's more like by the time she did "Toxic" she had enough strength in the marketplace that her songs didn't have to be so branded to succeed.

Also, completely going against my context argument, I think people just really love hearing Britney sing stuff like "I took a sip from my devil cup."

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

I don't know - as Tom suggests above, that seemed like a "make or break single" to me. If she hadn't pulled a big one out of her hat, her career would've been over (ish).

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I think this is a good point too, and I agree with Lex. Except I don't think the other songs 'require' her context, I think they're enhanced by it and she's enhanced by them, but the good ones would be good ones by anybody.

I'm finding it quite hard to think of another act whose singles have worked as an unfolding story/soap/saga of personal misdevelopment as well as Britney's, and "Toxic" just doesn't really fit into it, which makes it less interesting as well as more 'transcendent'. It's Britney needing a big hit, and getting a REALLY big hit, and it's an incredible hit, but it doesn't add to her Britney-ness in any great way. I'd say the same of "Can't Get You Out Of My Head", actually, but I think Kylie's Kylie-ness is way way weaker than Britney's Britney-ness so it matters less?

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[pot80.livejournal.com]

Don't you think "Toxic" is what set her storyline moving toward its K-Fed/exposed crotch/shaven head meltdown? It's the song where she totally gives up on being the good girl...

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

I thought she did that with Boys and I'm a Slave 4 U.

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

The not-a-good-girl arc starts with "Slave" and goes all through "Boys" and the one where she's lezzing up with Madonna, surely? "Toxic" is too bright and exciting to be a bad-girl meltdown song IMO.

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[pot80.livejournal.com]

I kinda take "Slave" and "Boys" to be like Girls Gone Wild stuff, and "Toxic" to be this willful surrender to evil...

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[pot80.livejournal.com]

Like, the former two songs are exhibitionism, theatrical sexuality for the sake of ego and capitalism, and the latter is decadent and knowingly self-destructive.

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[pot80.livejournal.com]

I mean, I trust that you're both not equating overt sexuality with corruption...

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[koganbot]

"...Baby One More Time" video was about good girl going "bad," so good-bad isn't a career arc here (or isn't a simple one), and people who like "innocent" wink-wink teens aren't necessarily against women in their early '20s being not so innocent, so good-bad may not necessarily be the poles (or the only poles) in her tensions.

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Yeah her arc isn't about good-bad but about the extent, or the perceived extent, to which a) the balance is tilting and b) the extent Britney is in control of the tilting.

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I was about to post about the control thing - the arc might actually be professional-unprofessional! From 'Baby One More Time' through to 'Boys' Britney was doing what was expected in a thoroughly professional way - she may have been ever 'badder' and more sexualised but she did it without "letting herself go" in Daily Mail parlance. After that you have the split from Justin, the rise of Justin and Xtina (the latter of whom appeared to be tipping over the edge herself around the same time Britney was pre-eminent), the Madge kiss which got a lot of negative press, the subsequent Madge single which underwhelmed most...in this context 'Toxic', as dark as it is, seems more like a last hurrah, a throwback which is out of kilter with the narrative arc, which from then on descends into Britney doing everything she isn't supposed to.

Little lost beautiful 'Everytime' is in many ways the real, proper bridge :)

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[koganbot]

And in all this she's perfectly capable of turning out a beautiful "And Then We Kissed" that is thoroughly competent but unnoticed in Britain and the U.S. while going top of the pops in scattered markets in the Middle East and Asia (and in South Africa), without any promo.

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I've still not heard that!

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[awesomewells.livejournal.com]

Hang on, did Britney actually release anything after Toxic? I'm sure she must have done but maybe that song just eclipsed everything else.

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Er only the PINNACLE OF HER CAREER.

1 Britney Spears Baby One More Time Feb 1999 3 Britney Spears Sometimes Jun 1999
5 Britney Spears (You Drive Me) Crazy Oct 1999 1 Britney Spears Born To Make You Happy Jan 2000
1 Britney Spears Oops!... I Did It Again May 2000
5 Britney Spears Lucky Aug 2000
7 Britney Spears Stronger Dec 2000
12 Britney Spears Don't Let Me Be The Last To Know Apr 2001
4 Britney Spears I'm A Slave For You Oct 2001
4 Britney Spears Overprotected Feb 2002
2 Britney Spears I'm Not A Girl Not Yet A Woman Apr 2002
7 Britney Spears featuring P Williams Boys Aug 2002
13 Britney Spears I Love Rock 'N' Roll Nov 2002
2 Britney Spears featuring Madonna Me Against The Music Nov 2003
1 Britney Spears Toxic Mar 2004
1 Britney Spears Everytime Jun 2004
3 Britney Spears My Prerogative Nov 2004
6 Britney Spears Do Somethin' Mar 2005

Facts one gleans by way of an interest in Britney

[koganbot]

Oh, turns out that "And Then We Kiss" was first recorded in 2003, so I guess it doesn't really count as a post "Toxic" superior-to-"Toxic" pinnacle. Darn. Wasn't released until 2005, however, on the remix collection (mixing by Junkie XL, whose album of his own stuff last year was a total snooze), and was a promo-only single in early 2006, where as such it managed to chart top ten in various countries that were about to invade or be invaded (Israel, Lebanon*), countries that had been invaded in the past (Czech Republic, Poland), places that are afraid of being gobbled up (Hong Kong), countries that were formerly subjected to an international boycott (South Africa), countries that were hit by a tsunami (Indonesia), and overseas départements of France that hold the world's record for most rainfall in a 24-hour period (Reunion Island, 1,869.9 mm./73.6 in., between 15 and 16 March 1952). (*Actually only made it to 11 in Lebanon, which is what it reached on the Toko Hot 100; made it to 12 in Russian airplay; made 15 on the U.S. Dance Airplay chart.)

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

toxic isn't a meltdown song at all but it is a POP AS THE DARKSIDE song obv