A kung fu fighter in a disco

Yeah with the Now polls there were still sides to take and cheerleading to be done at this stage. I have my two obvious favourites in this but nothing to be shocked or shout about, bar AGAIN wondering wtf it is about 'Toxic' which elevates it so much - above all of Brit's other singles even! - for so many.

There is only one song to have featured in the P&J poll which I think I would vote for above everything left, 'Try Again'...

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awesomewells.livejournal.com

The song itself is less important to Toxic than the fact that it's bursting with sound and event from pretty much every corner. Even the best of Britney's previous records lacked that fizz of excitement.

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Yes but this doesn't mark it out from the Britney pantheon! I mean, I agree with most of the praise for 'Toxic', I just don't get why it's the consensus Britney pick over at least six or seven of her other singles.

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Alex, the thing is, it's the song that totally transcends Britney. The other songs require her context, but "Toxic" is something you can love even if you totally hate Britney Spears, it's that classic and overwhelming.

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Ha, I think this is correct, and you've not only hit on why "everyone" loves it but also why I'm slightly annoyed by/suspicious of/bemused by that love (despite loving it myself!).

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blue-russian.livejournal.com

It transcends Britney only because she had gone through several persona by the time she got to it, and therefore there was nothing to attach to the song.

I think BOTM is a world-beater (Christ, the Travis cover even works!) but it's v. v. difficult for people to separate it from Britney.

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I think it's more like by the time she did "Toxic" she had enough strength in the marketplace that her songs didn't have to be so branded to succeed.

Also, completely going against my context argument, I think people just really love hearing Britney sing stuff like "I took a sip from my devil cup."

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blue-russian.livejournal.com

I don't know - as Tom suggests above, that seemed like a "make or break single" to me. If she hadn't pulled a big one out of her hat, her career would've been over (ish).

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I think this is a good point too, and I agree with Lex. Except I don't think the other songs 'require' her context, I think they're enhanced by it and she's enhanced by them, but the good ones would be good ones by anybody.

I'm finding it quite hard to think of another act whose singles have worked as an unfolding story/soap/saga of personal misdevelopment as well as Britney's, and "Toxic" just doesn't really fit into it, which makes it less interesting as well as more 'transcendent'. It's Britney needing a big hit, and getting a REALLY big hit, and it's an incredible hit, but it doesn't add to her Britney-ness in any great way. I'd say the same of "Can't Get You Out Of My Head", actually, but I think Kylie's Kylie-ness is way way weaker than Britney's Britney-ness so it matters less?

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Don't you think "Toxic" is what set her storyline moving toward its K-Fed/exposed crotch/shaven head meltdown? It's the song where she totally gives up on being the good girl...

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blue-russian.livejournal.com

I thought she did that with Boys and I'm a Slave 4 U.

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The not-a-good-girl arc starts with "Slave" and goes all through "Boys" and the one where she's lezzing up with Madonna, surely? "Toxic" is too bright and exciting to be a bad-girl meltdown song IMO.

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I kinda take "Slave" and "Boys" to be like Girls Gone Wild stuff, and "Toxic" to be this willful surrender to evil...

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Like, the former two songs are exhibitionism, theatrical sexuality for the sake of ego and capitalism, and the latter is decadent and knowingly self-destructive.

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I mean, I trust that you're both not equating overt sexuality with corruption...

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koganbot

"...Baby One More Time" video was about good girl going "bad," so good-bad isn't a career arc here (or isn't a simple one), and people who like "innocent" wink-wink teens aren't necessarily against women in their early '20s being not so innocent, so good-bad may not necessarily be the poles (or the only poles) in her tensions.

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

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freakytigger.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-02-21 02:16 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

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alexmacpherson.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-02-21 02:32 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

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koganbot - Date: 2007-02-21 03:03 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

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alexmacpherson.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-02-21 04:09 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

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awesomewells.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-02-21 05:26 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: History of Jop vs History of Pop

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alexmacpherson.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-02-21 05:30 pm (UTC) - Expand

Facts one gleans by way of an interest in Britney

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koganbot - Date: 2007-02-21 06:30 pm (UTC) - Expand

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dubdobdee.livejournal.com

toxic isn't a meltdown song at all but it is a POP AS THE DARKSIDE song obv

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lockedintheatti.livejournal.com

Does that mean then that a populist selection of songs somehow gives more interesting results than one selected by critics?

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Nope. The difference is in the selection of what goes through.

Actually the analogy is between the old European Cup and the Champions League, I have just realised.

European Cup = actual champions of every nation regardless of quality, in a big draw. This is like the Now polls where we took the winners and nobody else. So several of the big hitters don't make it in.

Champions League = the top 2-4 from every nation, in a group stage and then a knockout. This is like the Jop polls, where the competitive set is the top 160 qualifiers based on a percentage-based formula, regardless of their positioning. So big hitters all got through and what you have is a situation where there's some amazing play on offer but the whole thing feels less exciting?

(I dunno though, I never watched football back in the European Cup days)

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awesomewells.livejournal.com

Also, to be fair, Common People would probably be in the final four now had we not all got bored of voting for it after the Now poll.

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I prefer to think that you all just got 1x good taste in music in the intervening period.

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I don't think it would have beaten Get Ur Freak On in any circs - that was a lucky draw for the Pulp hataz.

BUT I do agree that it's relatively underwhelming showing in its Jop poll, which led to it being unseeded, was down to post-Now boredom. So you're right really.

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braisedbywolves.livejournal.com

Also a lucky draw for Pulp lovers - beaten by (possibly) the winner!

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