Of Pop And Polls And Fun
Aug. 30th, 2006 04:37 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
freakytigger.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
poptimistsFollowing on from a discussion between Frank and Julio and I on the P&J thread about what "Let It Blurt" by Lester Bangs was doing there (you hopefully don't need to read that discussion to understand this post tho...)
Frank says: And assuming that a vote for ["Let It Blurt"] is a joke is no different from assuming that a vote for "...Baby One More Time" or "Stars Are Blind" is a joke.
But equally some of those votes MIGHT BE JOKES! Just cos we disapprove of irony or mockery as a way into (or deflection of) enjoyment doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
To look at the social context of dancing rather than the social context of polling, if you play Britney in a club full of people who mostly like credible rock or alternative or punk or dance music (not too dissimilar from the voter base of P&J), some people will dance who wouldn't describe themselves as liking it, because they're making a joke or showing off or striking a pose or whatever.
Same thing happens in a poll, and just like dancing there's a continuum: as a poll gets bigger and more formal, voters take it (and themselves) more seriously, and the ones that don't get statistically ironed out and so results which MIGHT carry an implication of private enthusiasm or private irony (same difference, statswise) become fewer and fewer. The P&J poll these days is definitely at the serious end of this continuum, the Poptimists polls generally at the frivolous end due to the fact that the social element of polling is much more explicit here.
The '79 singles results are P&J at an earlier stage in this process than it's reached now and I was delighted to see the Bangs single placing because it seemed to me to carry traces of the 'social-ness' of P&J (and 'rock criticism' itself, if you like).
Which may be just as patronising to Bangs-the-musician, but there you go.
Frank says: And assuming that a vote for ["Let It Blurt"] is a joke is no different from assuming that a vote for "...Baby One More Time" or "Stars Are Blind" is a joke.
But equally some of those votes MIGHT BE JOKES! Just cos we disapprove of irony or mockery as a way into (or deflection of) enjoyment doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
To look at the social context of dancing rather than the social context of polling, if you play Britney in a club full of people who mostly like credible rock or alternative or punk or dance music (not too dissimilar from the voter base of P&J), some people will dance who wouldn't describe themselves as liking it, because they're making a joke or showing off or striking a pose or whatever.
Same thing happens in a poll, and just like dancing there's a continuum: as a poll gets bigger and more formal, voters take it (and themselves) more seriously, and the ones that don't get statistically ironed out and so results which MIGHT carry an implication of private enthusiasm or private irony (same difference, statswise) become fewer and fewer. The P&J poll these days is definitely at the serious end of this continuum, the Poptimists polls generally at the frivolous end due to the fact that the social element of polling is much more explicit here.
The '79 singles results are P&J at an earlier stage in this process than it's reached now and I was delighted to see the Bangs single placing because it seemed to me to carry traces of the 'social-ness' of P&J (and 'rock criticism' itself, if you like).
Which may be just as patronising to Bangs-the-musician, but there you go.
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no subject
Date: 2006-08-31 09:53 am (UTC)I could say the elements that went into the assumption were (probably) that on one hand the man and his writings had entered a canon yet his music has never even come up till now and when it does (by being placed on the poll) it was only talked about as unheard-of. Also, yeah, i thought it as a friendly vote (polls are fun anyway, and VV critics probably formulated voting for LiB as shronk-joke) for a in-reality probably bad single.
But actually I must have thought of the above in a micro-second. More like I wanted the person who voted for it to tell what it sounded like and that therefore no it isn't garbage.