Of Pop And Polls And Fun

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Following on from a discussion between Frank and Julio and I on the P&J thread about what "Let It Blurt" by Lester Bangs was doing there (you hopefully don't need to read that discussion to understand this post tho...)

Frank says: And assuming that a vote for ["Let It Blurt"] is a joke is no different from assuming that a vote for "...Baby One More Time" or "Stars Are Blind" is a joke.

But equally some of those votes MIGHT BE JOKES! Just cos we disapprove of irony or mockery as a way into (or deflection of) enjoyment doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

To look at the social context of dancing rather than the social context of polling, if you play Britney in a club full of people who mostly like credible rock or alternative or punk or dance music (not too dissimilar from the voter base of P&J), some people will dance who wouldn't describe themselves as liking it, because they're making a joke or showing off or striking a pose or whatever.

Same thing happens in a poll, and just like dancing there's a continuum: as a poll gets bigger and more formal, voters take it (and themselves) more seriously, and the ones that don't get statistically ironed out and so results which MIGHT carry an implication of private enthusiasm or private irony (same difference, statswise) become fewer and fewer. The P&J poll these days is definitely at the serious end of this continuum, the Poptimists polls generally at the frivolous end due to the fact that the social element of polling is much more explicit here.

The '79 singles results are P&J at an earlier stage in this process than it's reached now and I was delighted to see the Bangs single placing because it seemed to me to carry traces of the 'social-ness' of P&J (and 'rock criticism' itself, if you like).

Which may be just as patronising to Bangs-the-musician, but there you go.

Comments

Unrelated note

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

As predicted I got bored of doing work this evening, and instead have tagged the now polls (http://community.livejournal.com/poptimists/tag/now+polls) (link to which I'll put on the userinfo page) and the month in pop (http://community.livejournal.com/poptimists/tag/month+in+pop) polls (of which I'll do another tomorrow!)

Tom = orgafun
Kat = merely orga :-)

[dickmalone.livejournal.com]

Yeah but when people dance jokingly they don't do it for the whole song, they just do a move or two and then laugh, it's a very momentary thing. I guess the question then is how seriously did people take P&J in 1979--today there are protest votes and serious votes but not really joke votes.

[hoshuteki.livejournal.com]

What I was going to ask (but which was somewhat answered by looking back at the post yr referring to) is whether the Bangs song is any good at all. Only 1 person ticked it, but how many of the people who answered have actually heard it? Is it possible to listen to it anywhere?

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

Tom this is a feeble attempt to justify your ticking of Richard Ashcroft in the NOW polls that one time. J'accuse!

[giddyoldgoat.livejournal.com]

I've not heard the Bangs single in question - doing a bit of googling, it apparently features members of the Patti Smith Group and the Voidoids - but some of his other songs, esp. 'I'm in Love With My Walls' from the 'Jook Savages on the Brazos' alb he made w/ the Delinquents, are pretty good - nervy new wave that doesn't esp. scream rock-crit-vanity project. In fact there's a good case to be made that critics on the whole make pretty excellent musicians (Gay Dad excepted, obv)

[koganbot]

Key word "assuming" (root word "assume," as in "can I assume that 'let it blurt' is garbage?"); there is an assumption in the following sentence: "It's funny that an in-joke could get quite high in the poll." To point out later that, indeed, some votes can be for fun, or effect, or protest, etc., doesn't exactly address my reasons for being aghast that Julio assumed it was garbage and that you assumed the vote was some kind of an in joke. (Ironically enough, what came to mind was Jim DeRogatis's saying that Chuck Eddy put Teena Marie's Emerald City number nine in Stairway to Hell: The 500 Best Heavy Metal Albums in the Universe as a joke for his rock-critic friends.)

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

see i think this (http://web.pitas.com/tashpile/cecilT.html) argues for an at-least somewhat bangs-esque perspective on "seriousness" in the jazz avant garde (which LB loved): i'm certain the clue to taylor is perfectly balanced undecideability in ref vanguard masterpiece vs put-on, and i think that i think that taking bangs seriously means recognising a similar compacted response -- of passionate earnestness and goofy pre-prog rock mischief -- in his writing (hence in his music; hence in the response to his music inc.votes for it in polls etc)

[http://users.livejournal.com/xyzzzz__/]

This thread made me think of the Lester Bangs piece on MMM!! You know when he talks of ppl (well, a couple of ppl) posting sides of MMM in their readers poll ballots. I think he talks of this correspondent who posted side-B of MMM as best rhythm and blues single, and posting side A and D as best singles.

I always wondered whether it was actually true or a joke.

This is as good time as any to tell you all that, when we do a poll for poptimists record of the year, you should all vote for Jakob Ullmann's excellent "a catalogue of sounds". You don't need to know what it is, or what it sounds like - just take it from me and ASSUME its great.

Lets get it in the top 10.