Yet Another Year In Pop: 29

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

I know this is going to come as a shock to all of you, but X Factor runners-up JLS are at number 1. Cascada's down to 2 and the Black Indie Peas are up to 3.

[Poll #1432261]

Jacko watch: you might have forgotten that some old popstar died last month but the general public haven't - Jacko still has 18 songs in the top 100.

Poll reminder: you have until tomorrow lunchtime to vote in Heat #1 of 2001.

Comments

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

I predict JLS will be at number one for the rest of July and August.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Is there some sort of pop law that says boybands aren't allowed to do anything interesting anymore?

I hope SOMEONE is at #1 for a decent spell tho, I could do with catch-up time on the Popular halfway point.

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

I quite like that Green Day song. :( x a billion.

I am still not totally convinced by the JLS but alright go on then, am wholly convinced by Poppiholla just because I fvcking HATE Sigur Ros and approve thoroughly of how much it must be annoying their fans, Beyonce is a lot better than the video makes out.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Ha, JLS could've been so much less interesting! Was just thinking that '1 2 Step' is quite a canny song to rip off, what with it being a) kinda generic, so no one notices that you're ripping off a specific track, b) a big hit at the time but kinda forgotten now - if people think of Ciara's first album they think of No 1 debut 'Goodies' or critic-fave 'Oh', c) REALLY CATCHY.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I'd be happy w/this, cf your last post about summer smashes - we haven't had ANY this year yet, certainly not in the ubiquitous Umbrella/Crazy In Love/American Boy sense.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Oh my fucking christ I just noticed the 3OH3 song. I was hoping the UK would be spared it. Weeping for humanity. And even then it's only the third most reprehensible pop thing of the year after Dan Black and La Roux.

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

Seconded. Anyone ticking it will be required by Poptimist law to explain themselves fully; that means you, too, lurkers.

I notice we have a clean sheet for now but it's only ever a matter of time...

[jeff-worrell.livejournal.com]

you might have forgotten that some old popstar died last month but the general public haven't

Still, the fact that Jacko didn't get to #1 (when Elvis, Lennon and Freddie Mercury all did so easily after leaving the planet) says something. I'm just not sure what it is.

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

that in the download age, the vote is split.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

that said 'Man In The Mirror' was doing significantly better than the others and could easily have made #1 for at least a week - that it didn't is just a random thing i guess

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

Good point; i think maybe w/r/t MJ it is probably the case that so many people own his records already that without the impetus of a unifying official single release most people were probably buying Smash Hits commemorative issues rather than downloading songs. Oh, I don't know.

Did any poptimists buy any MJ songs? If so, what?

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

this was what was annoying me, WHO was buying the songs anyway? i guess it was a combo of enough kids actually paying (who'da thunk) and people over 30 who were like 'oh wait i don't actually OWN (m)any of his songs and what better way to pay respect than one-click online transactions'. anyone looking to play his stuff out at parties should've already had them!

i also think MJ songs would've done better had they not already been re-released a couple of years back, to less success than Elvis. Jacko really has relatively underperformed in the UK charts traditionally - looks like that will continue for better/worse.

[koganbot]

Well, I ticked it 'cause it absolutely kills everything else on the list including the fine JLS in a distant second, 'cause it's stinging and obnoxious and unsure and oversure, and I think that except maybe for the two or three people here who hate rocked-up harmonies no matter who does them, if you claim that this is not good MUSIC, you're a liar. My only real objection to the Helen Keller part is that 3OH!3 stop the song dead to sing it, and this cuts off too much of the momentum. But if you're sure what this song means and how it plays culturally then you must be way more penetrating than I am, 'cause I live in these guys' area code and I don't know how to read it, or how to read the fact of all the women singing it or acting it out online themselves, so I'm going to have to use my imagination based on what's actually going on in the song: a lot might have to do with the way you can dig in and live the line "I'm not fuckin' scared o' him" - when the line comes, you're in it, this is about a party with a fight bubbling out of itself, partying yourself into oblivion and anonymity, as if the oblivion itself were a way of putting up a fight, or a way to outlast the fear, anyway, a release that the trust fund can't buy, now I'm ready to close my eyes, now I'm ready to close my mind, now I wanna be your dog, and that's what the girls singing and miming might identify with, and the couple of guys who wrote the song might identify with, too, 'cause that's what I identify with. But I knew I liked the song before I went through any of this thought process, knew halfway in, even before Helen Keller, knew when I heard the "oh woah" and the "I'm not fuckin' scared o' him."

You know, the phrase "have to explain themselves" is a form of bullying.

[koganbot]

JLS "Beat Again": Construct a typical boyband track, and this would be it, except for some reason it's atypically well-above average, and I don't know how it's both good and up atop the chart (dance boys still popular in Britain, while in the U.S. they long since gave way to girl stars and Jonas boys in guitar bands), just like who'd have expected that the 2gether parody song that none of you bothered to listen to when it came up on in the Best Songs Of 2000 heats ended up being as good as the *NSync tracks it was goofing on. TICK.

Chicane "Poppiholla": Instantly recognized the song it's reworking even though I had had no idea I'd heard the original. Kinda only half works, beats crowding more busily than they should, and when it's grooving along in its nice way the music swells in ways that are more distracting than lifting. But is pretty enough and flowing enough. BORDERLINE TICK.

Beyoncé "Sweet Dreams": Well, setting up a song and then having the arrangement chip at and challenge the very song it's supposed to be supporting is something she was doing back in the Destiny's Child days, but if anything she gets more challenging and edgy and confused as she gets older, constantly assertive but uneasily so, never sure where to direct that assertion. TICK.

3OH!3 "Don't Trust Me": See my response to Moggy above. TICK TICK TICK.

Green Day "21 Guns": Gave this a tick on the borderline when it came through Another Year In America, feeling generous on account of the melody and Billy Joe's at least trying a falsetto swoop. Still, a "legitimate" song like this is just wrong for them, and the nasal callowness undoes it. BORDERLINE NONTICK.

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

Everyone knows me and Lex are just playing when we say stuff like that dude; I don't mean I'm going to ban people. I meant more 'also why do people like this? Let's have a discussion' -you ask questions, I get lairy; same principle.

To me, it's really obnoxiously smug and makes me want to die a little; this is because it reminds me (and probably Lex) of my/his indie friends going 'LOL HIP HOP LOLZ LOOK AT ME' and also I find it mostly unlistenable and the nudity in the video makes me feel a bit ill for some reason. Obviously that's not the case for everyone and fair play; god knows a lot of the music I like is deeply offensive to others; I really, really like Jamie T, after all.

But yeah, I meant no harm, I'm just at work and boisterous because I've been up since sh1t o'clock.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

well at least you explained yourself fully (not that i'm saying you had to altho moggy was surely joking anyway)

i guess it reminds me of CPHATB - not necessarily in sounding similar, so then not surprised that anyone who likes that would also like this

[koganbot]

Yeah, OK, I get the basic good humor of you and Lex usually, but you should at least wait for people to tick rather than to tell them in advance that if they do they've got to run the gauntlet.

But anyway, I don't hear an indie sensibility in this track at all. I type 3OH!3 as electrodance with a rock heart that's half frat and half stoner, and though they do veer hip-hop on some tracks, they don't on this one, and when they do it's not in a way that goes "Isn't it funny that we're doing hip-hop," rather just hip-hop as a vehicle for their sense of fun, like Eminem or the Beastie Boys. (Unfortunately, YouTube surfing their tracks last month I couldn't find anything other than this that was in Eminem's or the Beastie Boys' league.)

[koganbot]

I'm at the deaf, I'm at the dumb, I'm at the combination deaf and dumb.

[koganbot]

Billie Joe's

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

I don't really see the fun, I'm afraid. I got there eventually with The Lonely Island but 30H3 are just so musically weak, to my ears. Where Eminem was rapid-fire and offensive and made me laugh all I can remember about the 30H3 song when I'm not listening to it is their general nakedness in the video. And not in a good way. It seems to pussy out whilst trying to look cool and just be offensive, hence the Helen Keller line which I don't especially care about but does seem like 'LOL WE R SO CONTROVERSIAL'. So the fun for me is defeated by its attempts to get my attention across the bar whilst I wish it would shut up and leave me alone and stop being embarassing. I guess yeah, frat boys.

In contrast, Metro Station I can kind of see are fun (to me the two sound musically very similar) in a sort of 'has no idea how uncool this looks' way, which I can get onboard with to a certain extent.

Plus, as is well-established me and Lex hate all fun.

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

I like CPHATB tho! That feels more like dudes I can relate to, whereas 3OH3 seems like dudes that would totally sleaze me.

[koganbot]

Well, actually "fun" isn't what's moving me here, just that they're kind of cut-ups; it's the arrogance and the fierceness and the weird distrustful world of theirs that they seem to think is cool. It's not MY world, fortunately, but they deliver it and it gets to me. (And I'm much more comfortable with Iggy and Em and the Beasties than with these guys.)

[koganbot]

Yes, that makes perfect sense. But that explains why this song has a more emotional kick for me than "Pizza Hut." (But I think "Pizza Hut" is a better song in a lot of other ways.)

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I think they're both terrible songs and catastrophes of pop culture.

[koganbot]

A teenage girl doing "Don't Trust Me" in sign language.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

That Cascada are bosh as fuck.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I would not be surprised if one of the "100 new songs" (or however many it's meant to be) gets to #1 if issued smartly enough.

[chuckeddy.livejournal.com]

I just ticked it too, because it's the only song I care about on here (though I have to admit I've been getting a little burnt out on it, car-radio-play-wise, after several months. Which isn't to say it won't regain it's emotional and physical punch after I take a break). Probably wouldn't have bothered ticking if people weren't so bullheaded about it in the first place. Fortunately, Frank got his dander up for me; someday I'll write about how it's the only song my niece's parents objected to on her iPod, and how that adds to its conflict for me. (Have to second Frank, too, about it not sounding at all "indie," and add that it also doesn't sound particularly "LOL HIPHOP," whatever that's supposed to mean, and wouldn't necessarily be bad even if it did sound that way.*)


* -- Actually, just noticed that Frank points that out as well.

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

Nmmm, I don't think it's ever going to catchy enough for me to get rid of the idea that it's one of my old university rugby team trying to chat me up, even if I was inclined to try. I mean, it kind of is my world with regards to 'things that are immediate to me' and it's not a part I'd celebrate.

For me, Panic! At The Disco did the arrogance and cut-up-ness really well on their first album, whereas 3OH3 feel more like a bad comedy sketch, I'm afraid. And also quite creepy. I dunno; if it's serious then it's just really bad music and if it's comedy then it's just really not funny.

Maybe this is one of those Atlantic divides. Although I'm tempted to call it 'one of those times when me and Lex agree, thus proving FACT' -I dunno, I really do find it deeply offensive as a piece of music.

THEN AGAIN I was listening to Enter Shikari a lot last week so what do I know, etc.

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

LOLHIPHOP= my indie friends explaining to me in excruciating detail that The Lonely Island are funny because "this is all a big send up of modern US hip hop," ie: something they know nothing about, for the most part except that which they hear on Girl Talk albums. Possibly you do not encounter these people therefore do not have to be angry about them; if it wasn't for people like them, I probably wouldn't give a crap about Gucci Mane tho so swings and roundabouts.

Idk, because even in the cold light of 8am, I am prepared to defend my bullheadedness about it on the basis it is offensive, sleazy and cheap. I mean, my mum refused to buy me the last Kylie album a few Christmasses ago but that doesn't mean Kylie's necessary due to controversy. (She is necessary due to being amazing, obv)

Plus, as I said, I shout but that doesn't mean I'm being aggressive; Poptimists on the whole are quite boisterous, hence the fact we bounce around the club night yelling 'turn off this indie sh1t' at each other and things. *shrug* It's all in good fun. Plus me and Lex have to be allowed to hate some things; I do keep my mouth shut about Taylor Swift most of the time, after all.

[koganbot]

By the way, when I wrote that "bullying" comment yesterday I was feeling under attack elsewhere (an apparent associate of K-Punk with the usual lies and bullshit), so that partially explains that, and also given that the general world of "Don't Trust Me" frightens me I was feeling defensive about liking it, but also, for what it's worth, I don't feel that poptimists is altogether a safe place to post about, e.g., La Roux and Lady GaGa, which won't stop me from doing so but might stop someone else. (And given that I was just slimed by a K-Punk associate who was eager to construe what I was writing in the worst possible light, I'm feeling uneasy about the general La Roux/GaGa bashing here, like there's an eagerness to assume the absolute worst about them and not even try to think of alternative interpretations. Of course, I've hardly read any of their interviews so don't really know what the discussion is about.)

[koganbot]

But 3OH!3 are not The Lonely Island and "Don't Trust Me" isn't a takeoff on or send-up of hip-hop. It doesn't ref hip-hop at all.

[koganbot]

But fwiw I do feel 100% comfortable with you, and I pretty much never get offended by anything Lex says, though I do sometimes get frustrated...

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

I think 'safe place' is a difficult phrase to pin down here - do you mean 'safe' as in 'i won't get flamed if I post this' or as in 'i won't be disagreed with if I post this'? I think EVERYTHING that gets posted here is open to discussion or disagreement, whether it is as consensus as 'Ante Up is better with Busta Rhymes on' or as split-inducing as 'Cant Get You Out Of My Head isn't Kylie's best song' (or whatever). If someone like, say, the Lex (who is v unlikely to be dissuaded once he arrives at an opinion) disagrees then its up to him to justify his reasons for disagreeing, just as it is up to you to persuade him to your point of view. For what it's worth I think you've made an admirable attempt at such persuasion in this thread. I would hope other people don't feel intimidated either but obviously this is the internet innit.

However if the discussion does descend into attacks on a person rather than on their opinion, then that's not on. Jokes are fine but they're only funny as long as the person(s) targeted find it funny. As a mod I really try to be light-handed with regard to stepping in and stopping discussion when people are actually on-topic, but if it does get out of hand then let me know and I'll try and intervene sensibly.

In the case of La Roux (whom I dislike intensely) I would be totally willing to hear a case for her defence as long as it was reasonably well grounded (ie something more substantial than 'her video is great buy it on itunes now'). In fact, that spammer coughed up some really good discussion on La Roux & her remixes. But it would have to be a VERY good argument in her case. Lady Gaga seems like a guardian angel of pop in comparison.

Thinking about it, I think one reason the Lex often gets frustrated with poptimists (and the UK charts) is that there are a huge number of casual lurkers that vote in polls (or buy singles) and never 'explain themselves' in the same way that he does, so its easy to assume that there's some big indie/r4cist/industry conspiracy afoot. Many of the lurkers probably have no opinion at all on La Roux's interviews and will tick based on her music alone - but we'll never know about it because they are lurking, and the negative impression of her remains. If that makes sense?

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

Better WITHOUT Busta Rhymes on. Jesus I am illiterate today.

[koganbot]

Actually, I totally understand Lex's frustration (I get frustrated at the same things he gets frustrated at a lot more than I get frustrated at him).

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

Nmm, I guessed it was that. They're idiots and I understand why they bother you but I guess just put on a Lil Kim wig and hataz to the left? (obviously I don't mean literally with the wig, unless that would help) They're abhorrent but that's the internet, don't let the b4st4rds get you down and idk ...write a big essay about 30H3 if you like. In fact, I think I'd like you to write a big essay about 3OH3.

La Roux & Lady Gaga feel like big enough targets that either people like them and can and will shout back (and it would seem that they are rare near-consensus fails) or will write enthusiasticly about them or, well, they won't. They're so ubiquitous and Popbloodyjustice (who I got on immensely well with as a person but has obviously GONE MAD) is supporting both so much that I think there's a vague sense of 'well go over there then.' If I went mental tomorrow and started loving La Roux tho I think there'd just be an excellent pop FITE. I've repped for hugely unpopular things before despite everyone going 'NOEZ ARGH THE HORROR,' even when I was barely more than a wee lurker.

...I did put 'Quicksand' and 'Just Dance' in my top thirty of 2008 so, y'know.

I dunno, I'm a bit of a bad example as a mod but we did start talking to each other in an all-guns-blazing trillion-word argument between me, you and Lex. It seems healthy when everyone's as invested in music as we are around here that we all shout at each other, provided there's still respect there somewhere.

Main thing that bothers me about Poptimists is lurkers not posting, hence the fact I offered them out as well.

This is so disjointed and I need to pretend to work slightly more but eh.

[vumgarda.livejournal.com]

This and he died on the wrong day of the week. If he'd died on a Monday he'd have been number one easily.