Another Year In Pop: 46

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

X Factor hand-wringing still at the top, TI moves up to number 2.

[Poll #1298887]

Lower Reaches watch: It's officially Christmas! How do we know this? Because 'All I Want For Christmas Is You' is in at no. 59. Elsewhere in Mariah-world we have three other hits of hers in the top 100 thanks to last weekend's X Factor, with 'Hero' finally trumping Enrique in the Battle Of The 'Hero's with a firm position of 67.

Comments

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Beats and arrangements made without a specific artist in mind, or ending up sung by an artist who wasn't the one in mind = surely this is like 75% of pop? Ditto "fixed and narrow pool of themes". And as you admit it's hardly the standard by which to judge hip-hop. But that wasn't my point, my point was a) TI's big singles aren't generic in any way, b) "generic" has become an extremely lazy default criticism of hip-hop from people (not you) who don't like the genre or listen to it, and who really aren't in a position to judge whether something is generic or not, and who should probably stop opening their traps about it. And because of that, it's a word best steered away from even if you do know what you're talking about.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

'a) TI's big singles aren't generic in any way'

I think they are reasonably generic! If only just musically/sonically, and this is intentional. But he has a recognisable voice and distinct enough persona/role in the game all the same. It depends on how the music works for you I guess, or your value system.

For example with 'What You Know', because it's slower than I tend to go for I tend to think 'this is great, so I don't really need many other tracks like this' rather than 'this is great, i want more more more of this'. This judgement is being made of the music more than of T.I. (as MC and personality). You may see that as bad and missing the point and I can see why but hip-hop is still music not just poetry and persona so it's still important.

I agree with you on point B but it's often hard to pinpoint the reasons why you dislike or feel conflicted about art and I've had this with rap for maybe 20 years now! The problem is besides criticising a hip-hop track for being TOO musically or thematically generic, where else can you go without caring more about MC technique or the context of the music (the strength and success of the wider scene)? People are more ignorant of those things thru cultural distance which actually makes TI and co. seem niche outside the US where their home fans have such strength in numbers and can relate more directly.

Taken me way too long to think and write all this tho - hopefully it'll help me if no-one else understand my own position better!

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

There are plenty of things to criticise bad hip-hop beats for! Being boring, awkward, botching the use of a sample ('Swagga Like Us') &c &c. Generic is a legit criticism when a trend gets hammered into the ground (eg Akon's stuff now) but even then a stellar vocal can redeem it - there were great Lil' Jon tracks way after the squealing crunk synths got old, there are still great T-Pain tracks even though you know exactly what's coming. None of this applies to 'What You Know' or 'Get It' or 'Bring 'Em Out' in the slightest, what else sounds like those tracks? You may as well say Roisin Murphy makes generic electropop because other acts use synths and disco beats and female vocals.

You'd think greater cultural distance would make hip-hop generally seem less generic. Really, I wish more people would just come out and admit they don't like hip-hop - which is entirely their problem - instead of throwing spurious and ill-thought-out criticisms at an entire genre.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

'Being boring, awkward'

subjective tho isn't it. how do you reason what is boring in this instance? i do think southern rap 808 beats are generally kinda boring because of the slowness and ubiquity of the 808 sound - thinking it must be this combination (because i like some rap that slow e.g. Outkast 'Elevators' and i still like 808 on faster tracks) so it all comes down to what else is happening over that bassdrum, pittering hats and little snare claps. often the synth sounds create a faux-grandiose (faux because it's often a cheap-sounding carnival organ/80s arcade game synth sound being used as the basis) vibe around this, which i often do like.

i'm thinking of 'what you know' there and surely there are loads of tracks that sound like this! that Young Jeezy track Matt played at Hangover Lounge sounded a lot like WYK because it's using the same drum sounds, synth sounds and tempo.

never mind, it all just boils down to whether you like the production ethos. if nothing about a track grabs me, whether it's rap or electropop or something else, i might still probably think that means it's too generic cos don't know how else to explain it. but if people are labelling whole genres like that and never finding something they like in it then yeah that's stupid.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

if you think southern 808 beats are generally boring this means you just don't like the genre then!

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

well in my case it means i'm only gonna like a few tracks from it because of what else they might do (but probably not what the MC does).