Another Year In Pop: 12

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Tick rate on these polls has been down a little recently but I sense that may change this week as two of the most hotly-tipped new releases share chartspace. Yes, Guillemots and One Night Only are back! Back!! BACK!!!!

[Poll #1160081]

Comments

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I don't get Robin C's beef with it? Also fifth anniversary of what?

I mean, the fact that Estelle was forced to go to the US to get her music a fair hearing should make the UK music industry ask itself a lot of questions, but her actual artistic output is really the kind of thing I've been waiting for UK artists to do for ages - ie learn from and use the best bits of US methods while retaining the best bits of their own.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

The Iraq war d00d!!!

Robin's basic political position is that Britain has become a 51st state in all but name and that pop music has played a key role in facilitating this transfer of national interests without many people protesting about it. So Estelle is basically a quisling!

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I...did not know that. Huh. He must not get out much, right? I can see why one might think that if one's impression of Britain was gleaned entirely from government press releases but I've never felt more kneejerk anti-Americanism in this country than in the past five years precisely BECAUSE of the Iraq war.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

yeah but the war is the ONLY reason for that criticism and makes the UK just like a 'blue state' on that basis. actual "oh and they're all fat and arrogant" zings have pretty much died out because, well according to the news at least, the UK is also now as fat and as arrogant as 'them'.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

You know, I'd be fine with being a blue state!

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

the news indicates we as a nation are if anything a purple 'anti-war, anti-immigration, anti-social' state.

[koganbot]

Well, I'd elaborate on this by saying that a lot of his complaint is about the defeat of social democracy in favor of American individualism, his argument about rock and pop being that its smashing of tradition made it seem (or actually be) progressive in its time (the '60s) but that this smash actually cleared the way for Thatcherism. Whereas Britain should be leaning towards Europe (and Eurodisco!) instead.

Am I getting that right? The argument is way way simplistic, and he does not understand the Rolling Stones, but it's definitely worth thinking about. But I'm not sure he's arguing that Britain is a 51st state, that Thatcherism was merely Reaganism imported east, or that capitalism is fundamentally American. Sinker to thread. (Or Carmody to thread, for that matter!)

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

'forced to go to the US' makes it sound like the idea of being successful in the States (which surely she won't be even with Kanye helping out) was really unattractive and some kind of last resort as opposed to being a significantly more difficult thing to achieve (despite Winehouse inroads).

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

no she was forced to literally move to the US and get a job in the US because no one offered her one at home! basically she was forced to emigrate to earn a living, which isn't a diss on the idea of emigration at all.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

so she had to leave the country in order to have a #1 single here? amazing!

my cynical reaction is that 'American Boy' has only done so well because of the Kanye credit and it's hard to think of it as not being an 'Americanised' piece of music.

[koganbot]

But interestingly, no American sings like this (and I'd MUCH rather this'd had a Norah Jones or Alicia Keys vocal).

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

how on earth is it Americanised though?

- it's a distinctly European house beat - done by Americans, sure, but US hip-hop is rather Eurocentric right now. at worst it's transatlantic
- as Frank says Estelle's voice is about as un-American as you can get, it's light and slangy and botherd and melisma-free
- Estelle's lyrics are about as quintessentially C21st Britain as you get, surely? no Americanised song would have the line "tell 'em wha gwaan blud" in it

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

all good points, it's a perception issue tho - not something you can counter with puny logic

so how/why is this song a chart success in the end? and does this prove Estelle 'wrong' in a way? it can't be a case of making enough fuss so that you get your way - or reverse psychology (altho this is kinda awesome as a sales pitch, provided it works)! it can't JUST be kanye either.

i have no idea of how the song was marketed and plugged tho - without poptimists i may not even have seen/heard it by now (i would've seen it on homechoice vmx channel tho i guess)

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Kanye is a total red herring - if his presence was enough to guarantee this kind of success we'd have heard a lot more from the Rhymefest, Jamie Foxx and Pharrell singles he's guested on since 06 (Nos 32, 43 and 31 respectively), and maybe even his own follow-up to 'Stronger' would've made the top 20, and maybe that awesome Kid Sister single with him on would've got a UK release!

I honestly have no idea how it hit No 1 - the PR wasn't expecting it either, I'll talk about it with her when I get a chance. Maybe it's just cuz it's a great track! OH OH OH though, another thing I have to talk to her about - APPARENTLY Kanye's original verse was like TOTAL DISS of the UK press, like calling out a rollcall of titles (GQ, NME, Q etc etc). The GQ dude told me this in Berlin and apparently the PR isn't letting anyone hear it. I MUST THOUGH!

I think it proves Estelle right - she went to the US b/c she was confident in her talents and what she had to say, and she was right. I don't see this as Estelle Americanising herself - just cuz she made the album with Americans doesn't mean she was Americanised! It's more like, she co-opted Americans to help her create the music she wanted, which insofar as it has a nationality to it is British/transatlantic.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

still think there might be something in Kanye factor because his presence may validate Estelle as a black british female artist it's cool to like - that's only in relation to the performance of her previous singles (good but not great, sales wise). the transatlantic connection may excite more people who are keen on the idea of Estelle but only in conjunction with (american thus credible) male presence.

it's different when he's guesting with other (usually lesser known) American rappers and usually these haven't been the lead singles so less impact. his own profile here is bigger since his own #1 tho.

maybe none of this was important in 'American Boy's unexpected success but I'm not hearing better explanations.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

'I think it proves Estelle right - she went to the US b/c she was confident in her talents and what she had to say, and she was right.'

still don't get how her moving to the US has actually enabled her success here tho. is it just that (seemingly as with Joss Stone) more time and money was invested in her as a result of her being based in NYC or what?

i'm not saying Estelle sounds Americanised herself, just that the involvement of Kanye at all automatically prompts this perception of the product as being Americanised, as a cynical interpretation of 'transatlantic' even.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

well it's enabled her success by allowing the album to be made and released in the first place. if she hadn't gone there, Shine wouldn't exist. and it strikes me that the problem with the 'perceived' Americanisation lies more with the 'perceivers' than with the music!

not saying Kanye's presence isn't a factor, but you can't say "oh she only got to No 1 because of Kanye" b/c lots of people haven't, and if you then say that they didn't because of who they were...well, then Estelle must have succeeded in part because of who she is.

god, that Kid Sister song really needs a proper release though. TOES DONE UP, FINGERNAILS MATCHING.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

by the way i don't think it sounds particularly European House - more directly reminiscent of US 80s groove, elements of Chic et al but without sounding overly retro - all good.