Imitation And Limitation

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

During yesterday's DUFFY DUST-UP, there was a bit of talk about whether it matters if someone is riding on the market coat-tails of someone else. datura800 and girlboymusic both said things to the effect of "well that's just how the industry works, it's hardly a surprise". And I can see their point - when boy bands and girl groups are big, pop fans look for the elements that make each boy band interesting, rather than dismiss them a priori as a market response.

I'd like to take the debate wider and ask - when do you and don't you mind imitation and bandwagon jumping? Are the originals always the best? Does it make a difference when the trend (as with the Winehouse one) also has a relationship to much older music? What are some of the most blatant rip-offs you've enjoyed?

Comments

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

Argh, wrote long comment and then lj deleted it and now have to go to seminar.

Essence of it was that the original isn't always best and can be quite inconsistent, the copies, however, can take parts of a style and narrow them into something better. However, this does not necessarily apply to copies-of-a-copy Amy spinoffs. Also the industry is unnecessarily obviously cynical about the way they do these things these days.

[carsmilesteve.livejournal.com]

hmmm, not sure that "these days" is rly a qualifier on this, see larry parnes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Parnes) for one pretty obvious example of unnecessary, obvious cynicism from The Start Of Pop As We Know It...

[datura800.livejournal.com]

OMGZ I'M NAMECHECKED IN A POPTIMISTS POST. Hahahah.

I should clarify what I meant - that when a huge artist hits the record labels start to look for more of the same kind of thing. In terms of what we were talking about I don't think that either Adele of Duffy are Amy Winehouse 'imitations', which is why I was defending them. Yet I'm under no illusions as to how they'll be marketed. If they were just poor Amy rip-offs then of course I'd be critical. But even then, if they were releasing brilliant songs then I wouldn't ultimately care what their origins were.

It's all too easy to forget that Radiohead's first album was dismissed as a poor imitation of Nirvana, that Kylie has long been seen by many as a lesser imitation of Madonna, that Tori Amos to this day is compared to Kate Bush. It's easy to get hung up on these things and lose sight of the work they produce themselves, and that's a shame.

[edgeofwhatever.livejournal.com]

HAHAHA ME TOO I FEEL SO COOL.

RIDE

[carsmilesteve.livejournal.com]

that is all.

[edgeofwhatever.livejournal.com]

Funny you mention boy bands and girl groups, because my comment yesterday originally included the line: "98 Degrees is not as good as Backstreet Boys; Jessica Simpson is not as good as Britney Spears; we can get hysterical about anything." Because the fact is, I do dismiss imitators a priori, and am really idiosyncratic about it: I am still holding grudges against the examples cited above, but 'NSync were BSB ripoffs too, and I immediately liked them better than BSB. And despite initially describing them both as "trying to be Britney, but NOT GOOD," I quickly warmed to Mandy Moore and then cooled when she started doing mushy ballads about crying, whereas Christina Aguilera didn't win me over till Stripped but will probably never lose me, no matter what she does.

So I guess the answer is, I mind bandwagon-jumping and imitation as long as it seems to be just bandwagon-jumping and imitation; it may take me years to figure out whether it is or isn't; this is sometimes directly proportional to how much I love or hate the original, but really there is no rhyme or reason. Not helpful, sorry.

[jeff-worrell.livejournal.com]

Imitation and bandwagoneering = two separate things? Imitation I have no problem with at all, be it in the form of sampling or recycling a beat or Stereolab's magpie approach: using fragments of their favourite records in their own songs.

I think it may also depend on how recent what you're copying is - the more distant in time (and therefore less obviously 'commercial') your borrowings are, the less obviously motivated by cashing-in you appear...?

[skyecaptain.livejournal.com]

Skye's Max Martin/Dr. Luke single, "Girl Like Me," (http://youtube.com/watch?v=9fzeUgbUXjs) which was released last week, is a good example of this, as it's the weirdest late-bandwagon track I've heard...well, in a while anyway. It's kind of hopping on two bandwagons -- one is the obvious post-Kelly C. Max-rock template, shades of the Veronicas and maybe Marion Raven, but a bit more cheerful. But the other actually goes back to the first Avril album, lots of early-00's clunky signifiers, fake record-scratching, Matrix-like lilt-along. Reason this is so weird is that Skye has been fighting the Avril copycat tag ever since she wasn't an Avril copycat! This is actually the first song she's done that really does sound like something Avril might have done, if Max and Luke had taken a time machine back to 2002. That is, it's the bandwagon song that would have sounded tired in about 2004, and I don't know WHAT the hell to do with it in 2008!

[jeff-worrell.livejournal.com]

hmm yeah I'd never have pegged that as a 2008 song if you hadn't told me

I love unreservedly

[koganbot]

A category I tend to love unreservedly (thought this totally avoids your question, I think):

Answer Songs:

E.g.,

Work With Me Annie
Roll With Me Henry
Annie Had A Baby

Roxanne Roxanne
Roxanne's Revenge
The Real Roxanne
Roxanne's On A Roll
Roxanne, The Truth Can Be Told (Roxanne Is A Man)

And these weren't answer songs so much as variations on a theme:
Chic "Good Times"
Vaughn Mason & Crew "Bounce Rock Skate Roll"
Trickeration "Rap Bounce Rock Skate"

[friend-of-tofu.livejournal.com]

Without wanting to veer dangerously into filk territory, very good satirical covers do win points with me in the right circumstances. I can't think of one right now though!

Surely the best blatant rip-off of all time was Brotherhood of Man's "Angelo", for sheer blatancy if nothing else?