style conflict decision

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

OK I prefer the "the" in a bandname to NOT be capitalised (i dislike captial drift and stand manfully against it like little hans w.fingah in dyke-ah)

well i just got to marking up this phrase "bands like The Smiths and The The": obviously that is "the Smiths", equally obviously NOT "the The" --> hence i have decided that the name "The The" falls into the same category as "Liquid Liquid" (or insert bettah examples but this is all my mopey man-fluey brane can muster at the moment)

Comments

[sbp.livejournal.com]

Shurely that depends? I've never heard of them being called Smiths. Their first album had a very definite "The Smiths" written on the cover. So I'd say that they were The Smiths. As opposed to the Cream, who were called "Cream" on their record covers.

Perhaps they were the The Smiths?

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

ok sean but this argt is CLASSIC "capital creep"

when in a sentence, the "The" should not be capitalised, for the identical same reason we write "the Queen" not "The Queen" in a sentence (except when she begins the sentence obv): even SHE is not allowed to colonise the definite article with her uppity lookitme one-of-a-kindness, so nor are the Beatles, so nor are the Smiths <-- this is my argument ---> it is not "I went to view The Coldstream Guards": the "the" is OURS, not THEIRS

How it is laid out as an LP title is red-herringish:
a: titles have caps because they're titles, EVEN WHEN THEY'RE SENTENCES
b: ceding coherent style to how LP covers do it is a total non-starter!
c: it would be perfectly standard to cap the following songtitle thus: "There Is a Light that Never Goes Out", regardless of how it appears on any given sleeve (ie all lower -- unlikely w.the Smiths for sure -- or all caps, or some cRaZy mixed-up anti-rules anarchoid whatever...)
d: over and above "mere" house-style, there's the issue of a bad shoe-in-the-door for the foax who want their brand always to appear Just So (for a while there was a gallery that insisted there were to be TWO spaces between its "the" and its [whatever the rest was])

("Cream" vs "the Cream" is a separate issue really, more like Keith Richard vs Keith Richards -- i think they changed their minds as to which was the preferred form...) (or were just unbothered or too addled to notice -- SWANS hated being called the Swans)

[jeff-worrell.livejournal.com]

we write "the Queen" not "The Queen" in a sentence
"Her Majesty the Queen" to you, peasant

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

Talk Talk?

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

Anyway. It's WAY more annoying when bands insist on not having a 'the' when it makes sense to have one there (ie when the band name is a plural). cf Klaxons, Foals, er... Doves?

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Yeah Yeah Yeahs!

Medium Medium

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

SWANS (i *think* they also demanded to be ALL CAPS)

Re: Medium Medium

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

they should talk to kd lang about that!

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

i don't mind all smallies -- it is HUMBLE (and his PIES)

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

was it bell hooks who said she used no-caps in her name because what she said was more impt than who she was? even though by using no-caps and infuriating subs everywhere she was obv drawing MORE attention to who she was. tbh I'm surprised that subs through the ages have even played along with these people's games, it's like trying to find a backwards R to use when you're writing about Toys R Us.

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

haha i have subbed bell hooks OMIGOD she is 1xtotaldiva as regards her DREADFUL DREADFUL writing!

yeah thinks like finding weird letters is fun -- it's out of the dull routine (i also like faking east european diacritical marks using standard issue quark page-litter and INDUSTRIAL STRENGTH kerning)

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

i LOVE diacritical marks and get very het up if I find them missing! and also very bad that I don't know how some of the more esoteric E European ones work.

[anatol-merklich.livejournal.com]

i LOVE diacritical marks

Haha happy coincidence Lex, in your absence I supplied the ilx aussie Open thread with an Roll of Honour -- and took pains to supply as correct diacritics as I could find, eg Novak Đoković and Sūn Tiántián!

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I am really impressed - I didn't even know about Chinese diacritical marks!

I think the BBC live scorer made some sort of comment about both male finalists having names which started with silent consonants, which made me goo AARRGGHH and NNNGGGHHH because it was so inaccurate. a) if you're not pronouncing the T in Tsonga you're pronouncing it wrong, and b) if anything it's the J in Djokovic which doesn't exist!

[anatol-merklich.livejournal.com]

I think the Chinese ones (of the pinyin transcription system) aren't really much observed, except when trying to be v v precise. (Compare to Japanese transcription: nitpicky maps etc often have Tōkyō to indicate long o's, while plain old Tokyo is more than enough for regular everyday use).

OF COURSE the T should be pronounced! >:|

[boyofbadgers.livejournal.com]

Haha, that reminds me of a tale as told by some random minor US indie celeb in the early nineties. A medium-sized RMUIC had wanted to buy a SWANS record via mail order, and not having a current account, couldn't send a cheque. Instead, he sent cash through the post, with a note saying 'Sorry Mr Gira, I know I shouldn't send cash through the post, but I am only medium-sized and hence don't have a chequebook'. In return, he received the following reply:

'If you know you shouldn't do something, DON'T DO IT.'

[giddyoldgoat.livejournal.com]

haha EXCELLENT (tho what exactly does RMUIC stand for?)

As w/ Swans - or SWANS - Boredoms are another group w/out a definite article who almost always get one appended anyway

On the cover of 'Monster Movie' they're 'The Can' but nowhere else, afaik

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

Random Minor Us Indie Celeb innit

if that note was from gira it would ALL be in caps surely?

[boyofbadgers.livejournal.com]

Heh, yes. My recollection of the details are very hazy.

[boyofbadgers.livejournal.com]

RMUIC = Random Minor US Indie Celeb

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Official Freaky Trigger style guide on this topic states that said band should only be referred to as Some Foals (since clearly they don't include ALL foals)

("The" in band names is an acceptable-by-convention abbreviation of "These")

[carsmilesteve.livejournal.com]

i thought it was officially SOME FOALS?

Quando Quango?

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

obviously all bands shd be referred to by their REAL SEKRIT NAME viz

the The and them Thes
Quentin Q. Quando and his Quangos
Mark E. Smith and Some Falls

[carsmilesteve.livejournal.com]

chuck death and colin b morton, SO MUCH TO ANSWER FOR...

[martinskidmore.livejournal.com]

The The is the irritating exception which makes 'the Smiths' in the same sentence look wrong. It's also great fun in libraries - in Leicester I was delighted to find them listed as 'The, The'.