Let's Talk About Sechs

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

"Isn't sex the point of pop?" asks the Lex. I dunno about the point, maybe a point, but is there really a lot of sexy pop around? (And what would that mean anyway?)

I have (I think!) enabled ANONYMOUS COMMENTS on this post if anyone would like to use em. No, I haven't, ignore that bit.

Comments

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

'but is there really a lot of sexy pop around?'

Yes - maybe more than ever, hyper-sexualised society blah blah. The shock factor is pretty much gone so perhaps there is more numbness to a lot of it now but whether it's overt posturing of Britney or that awful new James Blunt video or some Map Of Africa or the sound of Burial it's still everywhere.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

AND ON PIANO LEG ANKLES

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I am not sure Burial are especially sexy.

James Blunt is a dirty dog.

I think there's a lot of pop about sex, but is that the same as sexy pop or am I being too indie about it?

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I don't think much pop is sexy, as in being actually like sex. But it's very sexualised, lots of signifiers of sex, and I am in total favour of this. Especially when it inverts the traditional power dynamic (ie women taking the reins, men being the sexual objects) - this is because it is important and subversive obv.

I don't see why people get offended by the Pussycat Dolls or scared by Lil' Kim AT ALL. Pretty much every pop star I can think of trades on their image, and sexual attraction is always and in all cases integral to this - it's just that some people are LOSERS and have to resort to trying to make people fancy them for their brains whereas eg Amerie can just wear a short skirt.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I guess the offensiveness in the PCDs comes from people not seeing the inversion of the power dynamic that's going on in the music and instead seeing the very trad dynamics in the marketing (that nice Mr Diddy has selected these fine fillies for yr visual entertainment). And the question is does the music take precedence?

My endless problem ("problem" is too strong a word, it doesn't bother me that much rly) is that the kind of people I find attractive tend not to make the kind of music I like, so I've long since disassociated hotness from pop appeal.

[koganbot]

Well, Kim is specifically trying to be scary. But then again, I spent a good deal of my adolescence being scared of Grace Slick, and I managed to be scared of Madonna in "Into The Groove." I scare easily. But what I'm saying is that I find such menace (the way Grace and Madonna do it more than Kim, probably) attractive, at times.

I can hear voices that sound sexy to me (Diana Ross in "Swept Away"), or even instrumental effects that sound sexy (the Zombies' "Time Of The Season"), but "sound sexy" doesn't mean I, like, get an erection when I hear it.

My 2p

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

I can see why *some* feminists are upset - the PCDs etc are seen as 'knocking down' the respect women have worked hard to 'build up' over the last thirty years or whatever. It must be slightly galling to see that effort 'wasted', but I guess young girls these days (including me) just haven't experienced institutionalised sexism to the same degree, and as such don't the exploitation of women as such an important issue (compared to eg race/sexuality).

I'd like to think I am a feminist - and I think the PCDs are excellent examples of empowered ladies, using their boobs etc to make lots of money. Why should they care how their male (or female) audiences interpret that? They seem to be very astute businesswomen (ensuring they get paid a high wage per performance/recording/promotional appearance rather than relying on record label advances etc).

SO my point is, the 'offence' the PCDs generate isn't just hyper-religious types seeing sexualised imagery as sinful (I doubt they're seen as any more 'sinful' than ANY modern pop star) but possibly sour grapes in the eyes of some feminist beholders. I suppose it depends on your personal attitude towards sex ("a woman's innocence is like a precious flower" hahahahaha).

Lex writes on "the traditional"

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

Especially when it inverts the traditional power dynamic (ie women taking the reins, men being the sexual objects)

Although I wouldn't want to argue that we live in just, gender-equal (or even neutral) societies, I have to say that I really don't agree with this statement, mainly because I feel that the overwhelming dynamic in pop is one of strong powerful women, frequently rejecting men who they regard as weak or otherwise unworthy. And James Blunt not to mention most indie, is all about guys being sensitive (it is not?) Emo kind of throws a wrench into things, but anyway.

Now while that may mean pop is subversive compared to real life, within the world of pop, the whole thing gets kind of motonous, doesn't it? I have so little interest in listening to a woman sing about how weak I am. There's no pleasure in that, and certainly no sex.

[edgeofwhatever.livejournal.com]

Pretty much every pop star trades on their image, but they also attach some sort of content/personality to that image. What's different about PCD, what's offensive about PCD, is that they trade solely on their image. I find it hard to argue that they are taking the reins or subverting sexual power dynamics when their members do not even have names. They are explicitly like, "Look, women are objects. Do not care what we think!"

Which is not to say that I don't completely love them (http://girlboymusic.livejournal.com/194503.html). But their existence says creepy, creepy things about the way women are viewed, and the kind of attention we will accept.

[(Anonymous)]

You have enabled them, as I'm writing one!

(If anyone is stuck, go to 'more options', then click the Anonymous radio button. It might ask you to do one of those letter recognition tests though.)

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

(Er that was me btw)

[martinv.livejournal.com]

Music which goes on about sex is generally very, very dull, imo. Especially if it doesn't have a sense of humour about it. In this sense, it is much like people who go on about sex.

Sexy music on the other hand, marvellous...

I ain' talkin' fast it's just you listen slow, know what I mean?

[koganbot]

The instrumentals on Lloyd's "You" sounds really sexy (more so than on the Spandau Ballet original that they sample), even though I wouldn't say that Lloyd and Lil Wayne themselves sound particularly sexy (though I think Wayne sounds good low-keying himself in favor of the mood).

[whalefish.livejournal.com]

I'm bored of pop about sex, or songs about sex in general really. Billions of things a person could think about or write a song about, a lot of them more interesting than shagging, and yet it's always sex or love. Boring.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Like what?? Sex isn't boring at all. I think in terms of subjects I want to hear songs about, sex and love are pretty much top of the list: they're endlessly complex, endlessly fertile and pretty much universally relevant.

[koganbot]

In principle I agree with you - not that romance is boring at all, but the ever-insistent concentration on it in song lyrics can get tiring, and there are plenty of other things to write songs about. But...

Who's doing these other things well? Where are these other songs? I mean, there are plenty of them in indie, but they're bad songs and stupid lyrics, often.

[koganbot]

(Of course, a lot of hip-hop is about violence and commerce, and violence in commerce, and about wordplay for its own sake.)

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

However sex is something pretty much everyone can relate to (whether it's doing it, not doing it, being happy/miserable about either of these situations). Whereas not everyone has eg been an astronaut. Hence the latter not being such an omnipresence in popular music.

[sbp.livejournal.com]

Problem is that songs about sex or love are known to sell, and have been selling for decades. And the music industry is there to make money, not to think of innovative things to do with music or marketing.

[koganbot]

My current (ever-fluctuating) top 10: Lloyd f. Lil Wayne "You," Ashley Tisdale "Not Like That," Miley Cyrus "See You Again," Frankie Valli & The Four Seasons "Beggin' (Palooski Edit)" JoJo "Anything," Britney Spears "Gimme More," Yung Berg f. Junior "Sexy Lady," Paula DeAnda f. Lil Wayne "Easy," Linda Sundblad "Lose You," Keak Da Sneak "That Go."

Keak Da Sneak's "That Go" is very emotional in its sound (but not Keak's growly vocals, particularly), its eerie, spare riff, but I wouldn't particularly call it sexy. The other songs all seem sexy, however. Yet in most instances the sexiness arises from the track way more than from the singers. Er, no, that's only half true, actually. Linda Sundblad sounds like a sex bomb no matter what the track is doing, and this one is all on her sexiness. And on "See You Again" Miley - for the first time - sounds truly sexy in her singing, and her voice deep like an adult's (and singing way better than she ever has before), and on "Gimme More" it's indeed Britney sounding sexy but also the whole environment of the track. Maybe "Beggin'" too, though being straight I'm responding more to the extremity of the musical emotional harmonies than to the vocal timbre. But what I'm realizing is how much this list is full of atmospheric sexiness, and in some instances the singers are merely adequate, and that's fine. JoJo is a talented singer but very anonymous, so far, and it's really the overall track that's reaching me. DeAnda is like a less-talented JoJo, but she sounds sweet and the harmonies and the organ are so rich, and the song is terrific. She does a good job; I just don't know if I'd recognize her voice in the dark. I wouldn't call Tisdale and Lloyd and Berg/Junior particularly talented singers - maybe I'm underestimating them, and they know what's needed in the songs and do it. Wayne is brilliant and hilarious but he sounds like chipmunk, an animal that's never been used to symbolize sex.

[jeff-worrell.livejournal.com]

Frank, have you written in detail about "You" anywhere? I finally heard it when I bought this otherwise excellent compilation (http://www.hmv.co.uk/hmvweb/displayProductDetails.do?ctx=280;-1;-1;-1&sku=736619) the other day, and was underwhelmed I must admit.

[skyecaptain.livejournal.com]

Tired of being sexy? (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/nameom/alvinchipmunks.jpg)

moar biology to write songs about

[jauntyalan.livejournal.com]

poopin and fartin (comedy rap songs)
breathin (well done blu cantrell and the prodge)
healin (lots of these, tho poss metaphorical)
metabolizin
eatin
...

Re: moar biology to write songs about

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

don't forget j-j-j-jive talkin'

[giddyoldgoat.livejournal.com]

"strong women dismissing weak men" = russ meyer