That would be a canonical matter

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

No canon today as my list is at work and I am not - instead, a question:

Is there an artist or group that suddenly springs to mind when you think of 'pop'? What about 'indie'? Or 'emo'? Do you think there can be 'defining songs' for a genre?

In other words - are there canonical artists/songs in pop? How changeable are they over time?

Comments

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

Perhaps a different phrasing - are there any artists you think are deemed canonically pop that are nothing of the sort? Or is EVERYONE actually pop?

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I don't think half the poptimist-canon artists (the constants on poptimists last.fm, the repeat winners of polls) are pop: Pulp, Belle & Sebastian, New Order and so on.

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

This is the old "how big is your umbrella-la-la" question. On some level they are all pop, although none of those three would be among my first choices if you asked me to name a pop group.

[jeff-worrell.livejournal.com]

I think I prefer the original question. Everyone is pop (if they're not jazz or not composers of 'serious music', and even then...)

So, interpreting the question as: who epitomises pop for me, Kylie would be the first answer that enters my head (yes, even when she was being indieKylie). Importance of image + music career identified by ref to singles + empathy factor (strong person /vulnerable person/ sex symbol) + catchy tunes = all key factors here.

my list is at work and I am not
b-b-but it has been well established in recent weeks who is currently next in line for canonisation ;)

[jeff-worrell.livejournal.com]

Do you think there can be 'defining songs' for a genre?
Yes, but only narrowly defined ones that both listeners and performers grow out of quickly. Merseybeat, 'punk rock', Madchester might all be examples.

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

There are probably a fair number of (better) examples of this, but what springs to mind when you ask this question is the example of Simple Minds, who were really kind of proggy new wave for the first six or so years of their career. Then came "Don't You (Forget About Me)" and some soppy albums and they became pop/AOR and are probably mostly remembered that way. Consequently I think that canons have to shift, as well.

Twenty years ago The Primitives were indie, right? They may still "be" indie, but no one would think of them as defining the genre. (Ok, maybe not the best example, but you get what I mean, I trust.) Although the Carpenters were pop in 1970, who would think of them now as definitive?

[damnspynovels.livejournal.com]

Interesting that you mention The Primitives, because it instantly makes me think of Uptight by The Darling Buds. It's odd that at the time it defined indie almost to a tee, but it wouldn't be anything of the sort now. It'd be more pop than indie now, but in 1986 something like Red Box or Curiosity Killed The Cat would've been typical pop.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I think the idea of "indie-pop" has developed, and the DBs would fit into that - cf the Pipettes

[damnspynovels.livejournal.com]

The term was already coined way back when for such a purpose, but I always felt it was unfair. It was like the DBs couldn't ever be just pop, so they had to be indiepop. And yet it's more pop than many other things legitimately called as such.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Well for their target market being indiepop was better than being pop! (And indeed indiepop was "more pop" than pop)

I'm happy for almost everything to be pop, though - I don't see "indiepop" as any harsher a qualifier than "teenpop", it's just a useful connotative label for a particular flavour of the whole.

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

Have we had the "pop is an attribute not a genre" war on poptimists yet?

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

ABBA are the first pop group I ever think of, even though nothing that is pop now sounds even 10% like ABBA.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

For me the first person I think of wrt "pop" is Britney.

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

I'd have to go with that too, probably, although maybe not for much longer. (Although who will be put on the pedestal after she falls off is a question.)

[bengraham.livejournal.com]

I was thinking about that exact question with regards to emo the other day. At what point is the line drawn between pop and emo, and at the other end of the scale, between emo and rock?

I feel you can make a strong case for all of the following acts to be emo (in order from pop-emo to emo-rock):

Kelly Clarkson - Avril Lavigne - Jimmy Eat World - My Chemical Romance

[boyofbadgers.livejournal.com]

The first two are gurls => they are not emo!

[lockedintheatti.livejournal.com]

kelly's lyrics are totally emo sometimes

[koganbot]

But she is a girl = she is pop

Anyway, she is more goth than emo.

[koganbot]

Pop = Beatles
Indie = The View*
Emo = Minor Threat

*Sorry, this is the worst indie band I could think of offhand, but I'm sure there are many worse that I should have chosen instead.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I'm honestly not sure there are that many worse.

[justfanoe.livejournal.com]

Indie = Cute Is What We Aim For

[koganbot]

I actually considered "Cute," for being worse than The View, but I decided they weren't indie enough.