A kung fu fighter in a disco

I tend to attempt to make my music taste reflect what I actually like; there's a lot of blatantly pop stuff on both my facebook and my myspace (although I haven't updated either for some time) and also a lot of "indie" or "dance" or whatever because I feel it's better to get a realistic depiction of what I like. On the other hand, obviously I am picking and choosing because if I started transcribing even my relatively small CD collection, I'd be there all day and so I do tend to pick things to make myself look cool or at least my own variation on the word.

Inevitably, those boxes are only able to showcase so there is a lot of pretension in it in a lot of ways and I know a lot of people write things they either don't really like or don't know much about in there to make themselves look better/more interesting (I know I have done this before) but equally I think they can be quite telling, especially knowing that people know they're there to tell other people about themselves/

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Yeah, I find it really interesting to see what people think is acceptable to write in them, to see what they think makes them look good. You can learn a lot about someone from that, and it always makes me like someone more if they freely list pure pop bands or just anything that's really uncool. It's refreshing to meet people who either don't care or just don't know what's cool.

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I would willingly admit that I know I put a lot of stuff in there just to shock people, like deliberately unlikely combinations but I do like just shocking people with the fact I'm a piercing-equipped goth girl who likes *NSync and Ciara etc.

Equally I tell people IRL that I like pop to see the reaction, to a certain extent. This is because I remember being a rockist myself, though and also because it seems to make people feel better about having a sensible conversation about music with me, rather than feeling like they have to be "cool" or whatever, due to my having just set the "socially acceptable" barrier somewhere entirely different (although by no means necessarily lower) than normal.

Actually really I am just a nu-metal teen at heart and like writing 'GIRLS ALOUD' on my bag so I can say people discriminate against mah muzix.

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It IS more rebellious to like pop music these days than to like rock. I remember when my younger sister was at the height of her emo phase (which she still is in music and fashion-wise, but has matured on a personal level), even my dad pointed out that everything she was doing was a total cliche, while how many other teenage girls listen to Swedish pop radio to discover new bands? I could see the trends and purposefully ignored them, while she followed them without even realising her supposed rebellion was the opposite of individualism.

The problem is, while this is all logical to us, new people I meet aren't going to want a whole spiel explaining it, so if I tell them I like pop music they're going to think I just don't know it's uncool. Therefore it's just easier to go for the cooler pop and at least have shown that I like pop, and if they seem to support this notion then I can be more open about all the pop I like - it can be a good test. But it is a shame to not be able to be shameless.

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Mmm, I try to be philosophical about it to a certain extent, since although all my friends are indie and I often get comments like 'I'm not sure I can have the same respect for you now I know you own a Rihanna album' I know that a lot of people think listening to DNTEL or Ambulance, Ltd. is subversive (and to be fair, both of these things get similarly UK low radio play to, say, Margaret Berger) and equally, I try to avoid treating my music taste as a means for subversion. I know I have a perverse instinct to immediately love everything I shouldn't, especially if it's "the underdog" but equally, if something's shit I'm not going to listen to it.

It is difficult to make the clear point that 'I don't listen to pop because I don't know any better,' because this tends to be the attitude of rockists/indieists/dance purists towards people who enjoy Girls Aloud or whatever. I don't really consider the (conventional sense of the word) pop parts of my music taste to be the most embarassing, though- I'm more cringed out by Good Charlotte than Steps.

Emo is just hilarious really but I remember getting very excited about a lot of really stupid things (Wheel of Time books, for a start) and still do, tbh so I try not to judge. That said, I did just laugh at a comment on a (month and a half old now) review I wrote of Paramore which said I clearly had no idea how outsiders feel due to using emo as a genre term so perhaps I am just a bitch.

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Haha I am SO MUCH LESS HAPPY to admit to having read Wh33l Of T1me than any music related thing EVER.

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I keep it, along with owning a Staind album as Emergency Ego Deflator Facts. Teh shamez.

He has promised to end the horror after the twelfth book and then we can all go back to our lives. Not that I've actually read the eleventh or most of the tenth but still.

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I HAVE, ftb I read them all LAST YEAR. My rationalisation (well after the fact, what was really to blame was a 4 hr delay at Heathrow airport) was that I would allow myself one last nostalgic nerdy indulgence before the inevitable maturity of imminent fatherhood. Said inevitable maturity hasn't really materialised but oh well.

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braisedbywolves.livejournal.com

Ah, I think I was being confused by his "I shall best death (http://www.locusmag.com/2006/Features/03JordanLetter.html)" talkings, but that's just about how long it will take to finish all the books in him.

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I'm pretty much completely open about everything I like, but I don't generally initiate a conversation about pop with a new acquaintance - a colleague at work, say. This isn't because I don't want to reveal what I like, more that I don't know what level of conversation they're comfortable with (i.e. I don't want to bore them).

That said I've been in the happy position of liking, or at least not being intimidated by, everyone I work with for the last few years - in my previous job, when I didn't really get on with anyone in the office, I didn't advertise my liking of pop.

I dunno what my strategy on social networking sites would be - depends if I was using them to keep in touch with people I already know or to meet new people. In the latter case I'd probably pick acts, or rather combinations of acts, I think would bring me into contact with interesting people. (Dunno what those would actually BE, though. Pet Shop Boys and ABBA for starters I suppose!)

When I was at University myself I was open about liking pop, but "liking pop" was as low a priority in my tastes as its ever been, so the kind of people I was keen to meet were like me, "indie fans who also like pop" not "pop fans".

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skyecaptain.livejournal.com

With my friends, and usually friends of friends, I'm pretty open about my tastes; depends on where the conversation is going (like if two people are talking about the new Liars album, I'm not going to butt in with HAVE U HEARD THE POTENTIAL BREAKUP SONG!). Usually I get the most knee-jerk reactions when I talk about Ashlee or Paris -- Paris I actually tend to avoid in conversations with people I don't know so well because if they react too strongly I might end up disliking them immediately (through little fault of their own), but I ALWAYS underestimate the vitriol yr random stranger will have toward Ashlee. I once fought with an opera singer (!) for about an hour about Ashlee. I mean, I think I actually convinced her to listen to Ashlee (which she never actually had grrrrr), but really it was just kind of unpleasant. (NB: we were both drunk.)

But with stranger-strangers, I usually play whatever cards I need to ingratiate myself. It's very important to me for people to like me, and being overbearing about music/taste upon first meeting is a surefire way to turn people off, regardless of what you're saying. Online is a different story (would that you could use hypertext in regular conversation -- "why do I like it? Well, basically, [link], cool I'm gonna go get another drink").

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It is easier to talk about the lesser known ones. Probably namedropping Girls Aloud here is like namedropping Ashlee for you. There are just too many ingrained preconceptions and I can't even be bothered to argue with someone so sheep-like in their opinions. You seem to have the same issue about not having time to explain why you like it, as you can online, so just keeping it simple is easier and makes more friends.

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mcatzilut.livejournal.com

On Myspace, I dealt with it by listing all the A and B named Bands/Artists that I like. The downside to that was it became outdated really quickly and I didn't want to update it. Also - that C-Z band names weren't represented. On facebook, I list the most recent music I'm listening to, and a top 10 albums of all time.

In other words, I deal with it by completely circumventing the issue of *how do I present what I like* by instead offering *possibilities of likeness*.

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This is the first time I've seen Patrick Wolf called pop I think! He is indie through and through.

Anyway, I am definitely open about my pop fandom - like Dave I try not to be overbearing about it in real life conversation but this goes for music fandom in general, esp to people I don't know that well. My main group of friends are all music lovers, and though a lot of them skew towards indie or dance, they're mostly basically pop-friendly or at least pop-tolerant - and music is a really integral part of how we socialise which probably helps. Plus, there's so much music that we collectively bond over that the music we disagree about is relatively unimportant.

I put up a massive list of acts I liked on my myspazz, inc pop acts, scattered amongst other stuff...I don't really want to have a similar massive list on facebook, it looks a bit lame and I don't want to have to keep updating it, right now it's basically four of my favourite artists right now and it may revolve. I was thinking of putting genres up there actually, of which pop would def be one. Actually I think these profiles are a v helpful way of pre-empting any possible real life 'controversy'.

I don't really think of anything I like as uncool...I'm aware that certain acts are perceived to be more credible, for whatever reason, than others, but...I dunno, cool/uncool is such a nebulous concept, it can shift completely according to what social circle you're in, and I take the view that liking 'uncool' music shouldn't make you 'uncool' yourself; rather the fact that I like it makes it 'cool' (because I think of myself as basically cool, and I think anyone who's secure in their music taste should also do this - I am heartily sick of people proclaiming their uncoolness, it's basically like wearing a T-shirt which says "I think I am lame"). Re: your lists I would totally call Backstreet Boys cool but not the Pipettes.

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You can't have heard his song The Magic Position then! It's so pop!

I have friends I made through having music tastes in common, and these are the ones I call on for gig-going, so music is integral to our socialising, but my main group of pals I'd be friends with regardless of what they like, so their tastes are a huge mix and although some overlap with mine, I don't think any share my attitude to music or even close. But I'm glad of this, I wouldn't only want friends who are like me in other aspects of their personalities, so the same goes for music. I do go off people a lot if they show a snobby attitude to pop, though.

I quite enjoy adding a new act to my Facebook list (and MySpace, but I rarely use it now) - it's quite ceremonial, like they have been awarded the special status of being in my Facebook hall of musical fame. But often I just find a new band who excite me and put them in straight away to show my support, and in the hope others will see the name and look them up or at least pay them attention if they're on the radio or tv. With the friends with whom I share musical tastes, it's a good way to get new music tips - if her and him and her all like it, there must be something there!

I think I have a somewhat similar attitude to coolness, although I am not really thinking of it as coolness so much as general posession of brain and greatness, when I express the attitude that people who like what I like are therefore cool. Or I might just be being overly self-important, but I think you're right that it takes security in your tastes (which I definitely have) to truly believe that people who agree with them are cooler (or superior, anyway) than people who don't, regardless of what the media and other people think is cool.

There can't be many people who would, put on the spot, say Girls Aloud are cooler than Babyshambles, but for me they are by a million miles and without a shadow of doubt. I'm just aware that most people don't have this view, so I know when meeting someone for the first time, unless I want to get in an argument (which occasionally is fun but not always) I have to avoid revealing this attitude.

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This may be due to the circles I move in but I don't know a single person who thinks Babyshambles, or any of that sort of mainstream indie, is cool at all. Whereas everyone likes Girls Aloud, even the people I know who are into metal. When I was at uni I would probably have felt a lot like you, thinking about it, because everyone there who's Into Music (and who makes a big deal of this) tends to be into indie; and student indie fans tend to be very snobbish about non-indie music. Whereas the people I know now who I don't think would be pop-friendly aren't particularly into music at all (ie it's not as big a part of their lives as it is for us) - which is fine b/c we talk about other stuff.

It helps in my case, and I suspect yours, that we like a lot of 'cool', or at least hipster-friendly music as well as the more poppy stuff, and I think we both have track records of liking things a while before other people catch on...so as people we both have credibility, which rubs off on all the music we like.

I have heard 'The Magic Position' - what I mean is that Patrick Wolf has a lot more in common (in terms of his appeal, his style, his marketing, his background, the people he works with, the places he gets coverage, the whole package) with indie bands than with eg Girls Aloud - it's the same with CSS, 'Let's Make Love' is a great pop song but they're definitely an indie band.

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There is definitely a group of people who genuinely feel Pete Doherty is cool, but the actual hardcore of people who do is fairly small, probably no bigger than the hardcore of ppl who thought Richey Manic (eg) was cool.

There's also a larger group of people who don't know or care who is cool or not and assume Pete Doherty is considered cool by the people who DO care. This is because the tabloids are hugely interested in Doherty, and their excuse for their voyeuristic coverage of his addiction/decline/occasional rally is that he is a Role Model, and if he isn't a Role Model who The Kids think is Cool then their moral case collapses a bit. So they constantly stress that he is cool.

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I don't mean that my friends actually like Babyshambles, I think all but one or two would rather hear GA, but when asked which was cooler I think they'd interpret the question as "who is portrayed as cooler in the media?" or "who has the cooler reputation?" and they'd probably say Babyshambles, even though most dislike the band. Perhaps I'll have to test it out and ask a few!

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It does tend to be the students who are Into Music and particularly indie who are snobbish about pop, but most students I know are more than happy to dance to pop music. However, very few would say they are pop fans - they're willing to admit to liking it but they wouldn't put it in their Facebook list or include it in an answer to "what kind of music are you into?" I'm glad that my friends enjoy pop music but I think it's a shame that still not many are brave enough to call themselves pop fans.

I agree that it helps knowing about more obscure stuff. It really amuses me when I chat to indie fans and can hold a good conversation and even make them think I'm indie myself, without ever claiming to be - in fact I get people saying I'm indie and have to protest! The best thing is that I can then introduce them to obscure pop that really is pure pop (such as Robyn, Melody Club or Dragonette) but present it as indie-pop and they fall for it every time, and then I have people to go to gigs with. The poppiness of a lot of non-mainstream indie (think Feist, Tilly and the Wall etc.) at the moment is very beneficial to me.

Patrick and CSS are both indie and pop, I think. They don't have to be exclusive terms - a lot of the best music (and the bands I can truthfully claim to like without offending anyone) is indie and pop.

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celentari.livejournal.com

My MySpace and Facebook music is copied over directly from an iTunes list of everything on my iPod - total honesty. The thing that appealed to me about Poptimists when I first joined was the "guilty pleasures aren't guilty" attitude, although obviously that turns out just to be an inversion of what would be considered a guilty pleasure by others - I wouldn't tend to advertise the indie-rock aspects of my music fandoms here, since Poptimists has the exact same attitude to that sort of thing as some indie rockers have to pop.

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katstevens.livejournal.com

Poptimists are ALL SEKRIT INDIE FANS, seriously! See

indieguilt innit...

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Some of us are NOT!

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You are! I've never heard of 90% of the people you talk about, you're just not Jo Whily indie, which is a wholly different bag and not one most of the rest of us are in, either, innit.

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Because they're dance, mostly!

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koganbot

I'm not indie. I'm punk. And glitter.

Thx

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sbp.livejournal.com

Even my iRiver isn't completely representative. Stuff that I buy to listen to often doesn't intersect with the pop that I would dance to and enjoy at a ~~disco~~ club. So there's all sorts of things that I love that I don't have copies of and hear often enough or know well enough that I don't see the need to get a copy.

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carsmilesteve.livejournal.com

what kat said. we're all indieists rly (lex in particular ;)), and i certainly wouldn't like to think that there was anything that couldn't be discussed, although obv yr going to have get a hard time defending mika or james blunt...

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I love that inversion of attitudes. I've always had it, probably stemming from my reading of late 90s Smash Hits, where rockers were mocked and popstars were cool and indie was boring, so it's the big appeal of Poptimists and sites like Popjustice that they share that approach. I do have some guilty pleasures, but I think they're more the more MOR types of music I like, such as Maroon 5 - I think their new album is brilliant but it's hard to find a Poptimist who'd agree with me, even though bands who are less poppy and sell comparatively few records (e.g. MIA) can still be pretty popular on Poptimists.

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Maroon 5's last single got a respectable 13 ticks on the weekly poll, but I doubt many of them have checked out the album.

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katstevens.livejournal.com

I try and list the bands that reflect the broadest range of my interests. However at the moment my Myspace has "Fergie, The Fall, Fabric mixes" as I was feeling lazy.

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koganbot

I love Beatles, Stones, and Dylan, but if I put them one-two-three on my MySpace, I'm sending a false message about myself, which is that I either disdain or fear the present. Whereas if I list them on

poptimists I'm not sending that message, but I'm not sending a particularly clear message either. But on

poptimists we get to explain ourselves. E.g., I like the '60s Stones image for much the same reason Lex likes Paris Hilton's image. What I try to avoid is something that will give the reader a false sense of cameraderie based on shared likes and dislikes. (Btw, I like two of the three Mika tracks I've heard fine, especially the Cutting Crew rip, though I don't think he has the voice for what he's trying to do.) But it's not really hard to get people to suspend their cameraderie with a few well-stated preferences.

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