[identity profile] katstevens.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] poptimists


DC must rank as one of the most tumultuous groups in recent pop history! All you need to know about ver Child is that

  • Beyonce was in charge
  • Except her dad was really

    They need no further introduction from me though I feel I must point out that their wikipedia entry is flagged as containing "weasel words", whatever those might be. To bump up the tick factor for today's canon I've included all the UK solo singles as well. You get NINE picks over the 29 songs below.

    [Poll #923828]
  • SO HARD

    Date: 2007-02-09 12:56 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] alexmacpherson.livejournal.com
    The only DC single there which isn't completely amazing is 'Girl' and even then it's a solid 7/10. Everything else is 9/10 or 10/10, easy. (Thank god they didn't release 'Cater 2 U' in the UK eh.)

    'Me Myself And I' is the only solo Beyoncé I don't like.

    Kelly and LeToya don't get much singles love from me (apart from lovely tinkly 'Dilemma') but this is counterbalanced by the fact that some of LeToya's album tracks ('All Eyes On Me', 'Gangsta Grillz', 'What Love Can Do') are up there with the best of what I've ticked, as is the as-yet-unreleased lead single from Kelly's still-delayed second album, 'Gotsta Go'.

    Re: SO HARD

    Date: 2007-02-09 04:06 pm (UTC)
    koganbot: (Default)
    From: [personal profile] koganbot
    I'd thought "All Eyes" was a single, but looking at Wikipedia, I guess it was just an early leaked track. I'd definitely tick it were it on the board.

    Re: SO HARD

    Date: 2007-02-09 04:54 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] alexmacpherson.livejournal.com
    Definitely not over here but I'm often confused as to what constitutes a single in America – like Kelis's 'Blindfold Me', there were never physical copies and only a video, but some radio stations picked it up so it became a single (did this happen with Beyoncé and 'Upgrade U' too?), this is what I imagine happening with 'All Eyes On Me'. In the UK this obv couldn't happen - except now it can, this year...

    Re: SO HARD

    Date: 2007-02-09 05:25 pm (UTC)
    koganbot: (Default)
    From: [personal profile] koganbot
    Turns out that "All Eyes On Me" was a promo single, which probably means that hard copies went to radios and bizzers and some critics but never were up for official sale. Sometimes "promo singles" can hit: last year, Britney's "And Then We Kiss" went top 10 in a number of countries as a promo single and made the U.S. dance airplay chart. (I have no idea if overseas it got physical releases as well as airplay.)

    Wikipedia's got a good entry about the Billboard Hot 100. The Billboard singles chart combines singles sales and downloads and airplay using some formula that they probably readjust periodically; in December 1998 they began counting songs on their chart even when their was no physical single. (Wikipedia gives an interesting list of massive hits before then that weren't counted owing to there being no physical single: 1995 The Rembrandts "I’ll Be There For You" (number one for eight weeks); 1996 No Doubt "Don’t Speak" (number one for sixteen weeks); 1997 Sugar Ray "Fly" (number one for six weeks); 1997 The Cardigans "Lovefool" (number two for eight weeks); 1998 Natalie Imbruglia "Torn" (number one for eleven weeks); 1998 Goo Goo Dolls "Iris" (number one for eighteen weeks). By "number one" they mean number one on the airplay chart.

    I think the Billboard system is better than the British, since it genuinely tries to gauge a song's actual popularity. Singles buyers don't represent the market as a whole. However, the British system does leave more openings for unknown bands to break out, though usually only unknowns that appeal to a particular type of audience: young people, usually indie, who will seek out singles.

    In any event, "All Eyes" never charted.

    Re: SO HARD

    Date: 2007-02-09 05:31 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] braisedbywolves.livejournal.com
    I know this is a really old argument, but...

    Singles buyers don't represent the market as a whole.

    But surely they're a better (as in healthier) match than rotation minutes?

    Re: SO HARD

    Date: 2007-02-09 05:45 pm (UTC)
    koganbot: (Default)
    From: [personal profile] koganbot
    Well, this is why you have to get a formula, rather than choose one over the other, but in the U.S. basically no one was buying singles physical singles after the mid '80s except teen girls buying pop hits on cassingles, dance fans buying 12-inches, and indie boys buying indie. So you'd get labels releasing singles but barely making them available, and withdrawing them as soon as the album came out (this would make the songs eligible for the chart, but basically only being used to promo albums). Of course, the problem with airplay is that it skews towards "desirable" consumers, those spending a lot on leisure goods that radios advertise, so 18 to 34 year olds who are not poor get disproportionate attention. But no, I don't think physical singles are a good matchup at all, though downloads makes it better.

    Re: SO HARD

    Date: 2007-02-09 06:18 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] alexmacpherson.livejournal.com
    I'm happy with the British system now whereby downloads are included - am very suspicious of any radio airplay being used to count towards the charts as it gives too much power to too few people (whether they're radio DJs, radio station managers, entertainment conglomerate owners, or whoever may be pushing money the way of any of the above). But then you have had better songs in your chart this decade so I guess you win.

    Re: SO HARD

    Date: 2007-02-09 04:20 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] avv.livejournal.com
    I thought they did release Cater 2 U in the UK, though? I remember seeing the video. Amazon says it came out in 2005...

    Underrated DC singles

    Date: 2007-02-09 01:01 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] alexmacpherson.livejournal.com
    Everyone knows the classics. These are as good:

    'Soldier' - DC cruise through ghetto in bling-bling limousine, rich girls coldly and unsympathetically casting their eyes around for a bit of rough. Sparse crunk'n'b beat really sets off their voices well, even - especially! - soft-voiced Michelle, who works as a great counterbalance to the harsh coldness.

    'Get On The Bus' - maybe Timbaland's finest work outside of Missy and Aaliyah?

    Also worthy of note despite not being in the poll is Beyoncé's cover of 'In Da Club', which is as explicit about the shark-eyed B persona we all know and love as she's gotten on her own - "if the ladies wanna hate me I just send 'em a bottle".

    Re: Underrated DC singles

    Date: 2007-02-09 01:04 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] freakytigger.livejournal.com
    "Get On The Bus" was my introduction to Destiny's Child - I bought it on CD Single.

    The reason I bought it is slightly less poptimist, i.e. I had just read an WIRE ARTICLE about Timbaland!

    "Bug A Boo" seems not to be getting so much love.

    Re: Underrated DC singles

    Date: 2007-02-09 01:07 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] alexmacpherson.livejournal.com
    Yeah I'm surprised, it's slap bang in the middle of the first wave of OMG DESTINY'S CHILD that I remember, also it's my favourite. I love Beyoncé's hissy fit at the end - "THROW! OUT! MY! PAGER!"

    Also listening to the lyrics closely I think it's not just about some pathetic ex, it is actually about being stalked, but DC never at any point consider being the victim - they treat the stalker like the pathetic little man he is.

    Also, "even if the Pope said he liked you too"!

    Re: Underrated DC singles

    Date: 2007-02-09 01:23 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] dubdobdee.livejournal.com
    i saw them singin bugaboo in a telly ad for NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL R&B GIRL GROUPS and flipped out! it is the only record i ever bought bcz of a telly ad i think

    BUGABOO!

    Re: Underrated DC singles

    Date: 2007-02-09 01:24 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] dubdobdee.livejournal.com
    i think it actually called "R&B Divas Vol.III"

    Re: Underrated DC singles

    Date: 2007-02-09 01:28 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] alexmacpherson.livejournal.com
    Maybe that series should be our next poll series!

    Re: Underrated DC singles

    Date: 2007-02-09 01:28 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] alexmacpherson.livejournal.com
    I flipped out after I saw them do it on TOTP! (It was my intro to them - first three singles passed me by and I must have been on holiday while 'Bills Bills Bills' was around.)

    Re: Underrated DC singles

    Date: 2007-02-09 01:24 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] chezghost.livejournal.com
    lol the pope

    Date: 2007-02-09 01:35 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] zenith.livejournal.com
    Has Beyonce totally ditched the Godbothering stuff now? I can't think of a moment on B-Day that isn't completely secular.

    Date: 2007-02-09 02:23 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] alexmacpherson.livejournal.com
    Function of the album's length surely? It was quickly recorded so no time for the padding - I would not take it as a sign that God has left Beyoncé's life for good though.

    Re: Get on t'bus

    Date: 2007-02-09 02:22 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] alexmacpherson.livejournal.com
    Weird almost tuneless jerky Timbabeats + weird jerky three-note descending guitar riff + detached-to-point-of inhuman vocals, "Forget your cab, get on the bus, I ain't got more talkin' cos there's no more us" + pleading Timbarap at the end, "I work haaaaard...I pray to Goooood" which is roundly ignored by cold-hearted DC

    Crazy in Love...

    Date: 2007-02-09 01:53 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] carsmilesteve.livejournal.com
    ...came on the ipod this morning and, actually, every time i hear it the rap bit gets better...

    Date: 2007-02-09 02:13 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] bengraham.livejournal.com
    My selections were all from 2003 or earlier. I guess I'm just not as bothered about DC now as I was back then.

    So it IS just me

    Date: 2007-02-09 02:25 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] alexmacpherson.livejournal.com
    who thinks that seeing all of the DC hits plus all of B's other singles together like that, really does not show 'Crazy In Love' as particularly outstanding?

    Re: So it IS just me

    Date: 2007-02-09 02:28 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] justfanoe.livejournal.com
    I ticked "Crazy In Love" but I would have let it go if I had to trim it to 8 ticks. I like "03 Bonnie and Clyde" better.

    This was crazy hard, and I'm sure you'll agree that "Survivor" is getting screwed here.

    Re: So it IS just me

    Date: 2007-02-09 02:30 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] justfanoe.livejournal.com
    My Ticks Ranked Top to Bottom:

    1. "Irreplaceable"
    2. "Survivor"
    3. "03 Bonnie and Clyde"
    4. "Say My Name"
    5. "Bootylicious"
    6. "Dilemma"
    7. "Work It Out"
    8. "Soldier"
    9. "Crazy In Love"

    Re: So it IS just me

    Date: 2007-02-09 02:32 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] alexmacpherson.livejournal.com
    Yes. Including by me! :(

    Re: So it IS just me

    Date: 2007-02-09 04:44 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] mostlyconnect.livejournal.com
    i would have picked it as my #1, but possibly I shouldn't even be voting in this poll.

    Re: So it IS just me

    Date: 2007-02-09 04:58 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] mostlyconnect.livejournal.com
    i didn't know half of these records! i ticked everything i could remember the chorus of.

    Date: 2007-02-09 02:33 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] catsgomiaow.livejournal.com
    Haha Bills Bills Bills was the first ever modern ArrAnBee song I ever admitted to liking! I remember being in the Camden Falcon as was, talking to Indie Geoff about it, and he was UTTERLY HORRIFIED.

    Also I hadn't really heard Bonnie And CLyde 03 before PM played it to me the other day! But it is awesome.

    By the way, doing this poll obv inspired the INCREDIBLY WITTY subject header on my latest snot updatepost ;)

    Date: 2007-02-09 02:39 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] catsgomiaow.livejournal.com
    Actually I think [livejournal.com profile] boyofbadgers was there with me in the Falcon that night too! We both liked the DC song and Geoff was horrified with both of us. Then came the "queenie" incident!

    Date: 2007-02-09 04:10 pm (UTC)
    koganbot: (Default)
    From: [personal profile] koganbot
    Do tell.

    Date: 2007-02-09 02:41 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] awesomewells.livejournal.com
    Destinys Child really do have this amazing overplayed/underplayed thing going on. I'm sure this would be the most riotously great Best Of ever but there's a fair few of these you just never hear. Possibly because the big hits are so ubiquitous.

    There's one missing:

    Date: 2007-02-09 03:38 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] lockedintheatti.livejournal.com
    She's Gone by Matthew Marsden (ex Coronation St) featuring Destiny's Child (no. 24, 1998). It's kind of been airbrushed out of history.

    Surely one of the most unlikely collaborations in history.

    Date: 2007-02-09 04:27 pm (UTC)
    koganbot: (Default)
    From: [personal profile] koganbot
    The ones ticked by me that aren't polling so well are:

    "Bug A Boo": Incredible orchestral stabs.
    "Survivor": Emotion gets the better of her, for once. My favorite, and the only one where the singing really makes me care; Beyoncé has a spectacular voice and is an excellent songwriter, but I don't warm to her sheen (though I appreciate it).
    "Baby Boy": Twisting, rubber-tree vocals from Sean (never heard him better); the first time I heard this I was twisting into a rubber tree. My fave Bouncy track.
    "Check On It": Beauty comes in bubbles.

    I surmise that "Ring The Alarm" was not a single in Britain. (The one where she makes fun of her sheen, sort of.)

    "Irreplaceable" has been number 1 for ten weeks in the U.S., which is astonishing in the new download era.

    Date: 2007-02-09 05:08 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] jeff-worrell.livejournal.com
    With Dreamgirls needing cross-promotion, I imagine RTA had to make way. I have a feeling it may get a belated release once everyone's forgotten about the movie.

    Date: 2007-02-09 06:14 pm (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] alexmacpherson.livejournal.com
    I doubt it - there's some sort of Shakira duet in the works for post-Dreamgirls, and RTA has had its general moment, I mean there's been reasonable high awareness of it in the UK already. If there is another single from Bidet I guess it'll be 'Upgrade U'.

    Survivor - please explain!

    Date: 2007-02-11 09:07 am (UTC)
    From: [identity profile] blue-russian.livejournal.com
    People get nine ticks but there are only five songs ahead of "Survivor" (which hasn't even hit 60%!). As far as I can tell, this means that there are quite a few who simply don't like the song!

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