The History Of Jop Part 26 aka You leave me broken shattered I lie

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

2004 is now THREE YEARS AGO (sort of) - our possibly penultimate pazz and jop ponderations will let you relive that golden or otherwise era. You get THIRTEEN from thirty-eight picks: Alicia Keys "You Don't Know My Name" and the Yeah Yeah Yeah's "Maps" turned up last time so are omitted this.


[Poll #902705]


Poptimism Of Times Past - 2003 Edition

1. Crazy In Love (43 votes)
2. Milkshake (37)
3. Cry Me A River (35)
4=. Ignition (Remix) (31)
4=. Hey Ya! (31)
6. Move Your Feet (30)
7=. Hurt (27)
7=. I Luv U (27)
9=. In Da Club (24)
9=. Danger High Voltage (24)
9=. Rock Your Body (24)
9=. Pass That Dutch (24)

This scientifically confirms my empirical findings at the work Xmas party viz that "Crazy In Love" is much loved again but that people are bored of "Hey Ya". This one will run and run.

Comments

My Pazz & Jop singles ballot 2004

[koganbot]

1. Don Yute f. Ying Yang Twins "Row Da Boat" (Slip-N-Slide/Capitol)
2. Kardinal Offishall "Bang Bang" (Blackjays)
3. David Banner "Crank It Up" (SRC/Universal)
4. Westside Connection "Gangsta Nation" (Priority)
5. Ying Yang Twins f. Trick Daddy "What's Happnin!" (TVT)
6. Method Man f. Busta Rhymes "What's Happenin'" (Def Jam)
7. Crime Mob "Knuck if You Buck" (Crunk Inc/BME/Warner Bros.)
8. M.I.A. "Galang" (XL)
9. Jay-Z "Dirt Off Your Shoulder" (Def Jam)
10. Miss B. "Bottle Action" (So So Def/Zomba)

The list is all hip-hop and hip-hop-inflected dancehall; does this mean it was an amazing year for hip-hop or that my listening was too narrow? Well both, but I did listen to scads of other stuff. Courtney Love's "Life Despite God" and Big & Rich's "Rollin' (The Ballad Of Big & Rich)" would have beaten anything on here if they'd been singles - at least that's the way I felt at the time - but the latter is hip-hop-inflected country-funk so kind of proves the rule. Hilary Duff's "Fly" would have been my number one if I'd heard it. And Ashlee Simpson's "Shadow" would have placed. And I'm still kicking myself for leaving JoJo's "Leave" off the list. (But now I'm up to 15, and I don't see what five I would take off.)

And I'm with Lex in the amazingness of the Pazz & Jop list, even though there was almost no overlap with mine. I was up to 21 I would have been delighted to tick, despite there being about 10 or so that I either haven't heard or don't remember (OK, like which Scissors Sisters track is this one?). Normally I try to go back and listen to the unheard/unremembered in advance of these polls, but I was immersed in Pazz 'n' Jack 'n' Country ballots and, like, stuff I was getting paid to write, so it didn't happen.

Re: My Pazz & Jop singles ballot 2004

[justfanoe.livejournal.com]

Surprised to see you rank "Crank It Up" over "Cadillac on 22s" which I definitely prefer. This is a weird year (and poll) in that it's weak at the very top, but very strong at the near top. So that there are about 2 or 3 songs that feel like they should be top 5 in most years, but about 30 or 40 songs that feel like they should be top 20 in most year. 2006 was like that as well, incidentally, to me at least.

Re: My Pazz & Jop singles ballot 2004

[koganbot]

"Cadillac On 22s" was 2003, and made my ballot; though I may well prefer "Crank It Up" (and "Fuck 'Em" is my favorite, though it was never a single, for some reason).

Compared to 2003 I agree with you; 2003 had a whole bunch of OMG amazing tracks but 2004 seems to have way more depth. For me, it was a lot of not-so-famous hip-hop performers and tracks being excellent, expanding on crunk, though sputtering commercially. And if I'd had my eye on teenpop, I'd have found myself great riches.

Re: My Pazz & Jop singles ballot 2004

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

The real gap in this ballot for me (and prob all the other Brits) is Girls Aloud - this was their peak year, I think most people will agree with this. Surprised that 'The Show' or 'Love Machine' didn't force their way into the lower reaches of the list a la Annie.

Re: My Pazz & Jop singles ballot 2004

[justfanoe.livejournal.com]

Agreed on this, and "Love Machine" and "The Show" are probably both top 10 or 20 this year for me ("The Show" probably being top 5), but remember this is an American poll. Girls Aloud are not on the radar at all in this country, and certainly they weren't in 2004.

Re: My Pazz & Jop singles ballot 2004

[koganbot]

Yeah, what Greg just said. Girls Aloud and Rachel Stevens don't exist over here, and Sugababes just barely. There are, like, nine "dance stations" in the country. Annie somehow struck a nerve as Disco That Even Indie People Are Allowed to like (or it may just have been that word of mouth happened to focus on her), whereas Girls Aloud are a Hi-NRG sound that U.S. critics rarely voted for during the Stock-Aitken-Waterman heyday, much less now. I'd never heard a Girls Aloud or Rachel Stevens track until I got broadband in the middle of this year.

Re: My Pazz & Jop singles ballot 2004

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Do you think that, in the unlikely event that GA/Sugababes/R Stevens and their management went all out to crack America, there would be an audience for them? If not, what about them or their sound is the most alienating factor?

Re: My Pazz & Jop singles ballot 2004

[koganbot]

"Alienating factor" is possibly the wrong phrase. The hip-hop/r&b market is full up with Beyoncés and Cassies and Lil Jons and Joung Jeezys, and GA et al. just doesn't speak to their club 'n' drug 'n' romance world in the way that hip-hop and r&b do. Of course, there may be homophobia in this as well, since the club 'n' drug 'n' romance world that GA would speak to basically descends from disco. No Europop/Eurodisco ever hits in the U.S. these days except as a novelty or an occasional one shot, and there only seems room for one or two a year: the two this year being Cascada and "Hips Don't Lie." Which might pinpoint another factor; when dance does cross over to the U.S. pop charts, it often needs a Latina face: Paulina Rubio and Shakira.

Even choosing to get over by rocking up the dancepop doesn't seem to be working. "Since U Been Gone" was a smash, but similar subsequent stuff has either sputtered commercially or stiffed totally, despite I string of mostly high-quality Luke singles.

Annie made it to Pazz & Jop mostly on the basis of Pitchfork and ilX-type enthusiasm (I don't mean that those were the only U.S. places you could find enthusiasm, just that those two places represent who has the enthusiasm), and those critics haven't been able to convince buyers. So an Annie can do low reaches on the polls, the Knife and Hot Chip (whom I've not heard a note of so I'm only guessing might be relevant) a bit higher, but the indie punters aren't buying, and the pop and r&b listeners aren't listening to critics at all.

Re: My Pazz & Jop singles ballot 2004

[koganbot]

Make that "'Alienating factor' is possibly the wrong phrase. The hip-hop/r&b market is full up with Beyoncés and Cassies and Lil Jons and Joung Jeezys, so GA et al. just don't speak to the U.S. youth club 'n' drug 'n' romance world in the way that hip-hop and r&b do."

Re: My Pazz & Jop singles ballot 2004

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

The audience I was thinking of was more...whoever it was who bought all the Backstreet Boys, Britney, Xtina, Mandy Moore singles in the mid to late 90s. Presumably they wouldn't have the same issues with femininity or gayness that the hip-hop and r&b audiences do; and sure, they don't listen to critics but this is in the hypothetical situation of GA/Stevens/whoever making a proper concerted promotional push.

Is this audience - or their equivalent - the same as that for Hilary Duff, Ashlee Simpson, Aly & AJ? How necessary is it to have a squeaky-clean image? Stevens has one by dint of being boring, GA are all-swearing all-boozing party queens but that goes down well here.

What about the audience for Justin Timberlake and Aguilera's current stuff? I assume both, though they appeal to both 'urban' and indie audiences, are as big as they are because they transcend them and appeal to the floating voters, the casual listeners.

Would Sugababes' more urban leanings mean that they had more of a chance of having success? Wasn't 'Scandalous' by Mis-Teeq a minor hit in the US in 04?

Re: My Pazz & Jop singles ballot 2004

[koganbot]

I'm not sure there is much of an audience left for Ashlee and Hilary. And Hilary specifically did try a Kylie-like dance-club sound this year, and it stiffed.

In early 2001 the Top 40 stations stopped playing Britney-*NSync-BSB teenpop, and teenpop became a more distinct and less lucrative market, though with occasional big Michelle and Avril crossover (Pink and Destiny's Child were crossing the other way, from pop and r&b to teenpop). R&bish dance pop is back in a big way on Radio Disney (never really left; is what B5 and the Cheetah Girls were doing all along, is what Vanessa Hudgens is doing now, is what Jordan Pruitt and Jesse McCartney are turning to, etc.). And it's not so different from the 1999 sound, problem being that most of the tracks are mediocre. But the 1999 sound we're talking about still moves differently from Girls Aloud. The rhythmic motion of Girls Aloud and Rachel Stevens (and even Sugababes, though they're closer to r&b) isn't the same as the U.S. r&b or r&bish dance pop (even the Martin-Rami '99), whether adult or kiddie version. R&b moves crablike, going sideways to move forward, while Eurodance usually doesn't. Radio Disney itself does play house-techno-Eurodance stuff as oldies, and the "Cha Cha Slide" is on permanent play. But Disney would have no reason to play Rachel Stevens unless she hits the U.S. mainstream first, seeing as she's not currently acting in a Disney comedy or movie.

I suppose that Girls Aloud could get dance-club play and dance airplay - but that's a measly nine stations in the entire country; those stations do play Justin and Christina without playing much other r&b, but Justin and Christina get their big bucks from Top 40 and r&b. You don't have many (any?) acts breaking from the dance stations to Top 40 or r&b, though you do get records going the other way, club mixes of rock and r&b hits.

Re: My Pazz & Jop singles ballot 2004

[koganbot]

And it's not so different from the 1999 sound, problem being that most of the tracks are mediocre.

That is, problem being that most of the new kiddie r&b tracks are mediocre.

Re: My Pazz & Jop singles ballot 2004

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

This is all v interesting, thanks - I guess the only way the UK pop acts could ever hit in America is if there was a pre-existing reason for America to care about them as pop stars (eg Disney movie). Which there isn't; they are not Posh Spice, but Posh Spice is not them.

(How did Kylie's 'Can't Get You Out Of My Head' become the hit it did? I gather it was a pretty big hit, from someone with no prior track record in the US at all - how did it do it? Because both soundwise and profilewise that's the territory we're dealing with.)

(Do you think the success of Confessions On A Dance Floor is a total one off, simply because it's Madonna, or will its sound trickle into...other pop? Although if it has with Hilary already, and failed, that probably answers that.)

Re: My Pazz & Jop singles ballot 2004

[justfanoe.livejournal.com]

Like Frank said, there's some space for this, just about 1 or 2 songs a year. The Sugababes actually saw one of their albums released in the US, and one of the tracks was a hit on the dance charts, but otherwise it made no impact. Confessions was a hit, but not a massive hit. "Hung Up" a big hit but all the other singles flopped. Why Kylie? Who knows. Why Cascada this year? Americans seem to just pick one seemingly at random and run with it. FWIW, "Locomotion" was a huge hit in America too though I doubt that had anything to do with Kylie's later success.

Speaking of Posh Spice, Spice Girls huge here of course too, though with some delay from the rest of the world.

There HAVE been some big crossovers from Britain in America lately. Notably, "You're Beatiful" hit number one and Natasha Bedingfield has had a couple of big hits, biggest being "Unwritten". Of course, these are not of the dance pop genre we have been discussing.

Re: My Pazz & Jop singles ballot 2004

[koganbot]

Madonna gets attention because she's Madonna: her first album got to number 8, every album since that wasn't a soundtrack went top 5, usually 1 or 2. But she doesn't get nearly the airplay she used to.

Kylie'd hit in the U.S. 13 years before "Can't Get You Out Of My Head" w/ "I Should Be So Lucky" and "Locomotion," but nothing in the interim. And the fact that she hasn't been able to break through with a followup may prove my point. ("Love At First Sight" did OK, other stuff does well on the club and dance airplay charts, which as I said barely register nationally.)

I wouldn't say that Girls Aloud have absolutely no chance, but their sound isn't getting played on hip-hop/r&b stations (six years ago those stations were a bit more open; Bloodhound Gang and "Blue Da Bee" got r&b play as novelties, for what that's worth), and it's hard for a dance act to cross Top 40 without any particular constituency. Shakira can do it because she owns the Latin charts and gets automatic play on the video stations.