The History Of Jop Part 1 aka Everybody's Talking About Pop Musik

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Obviously nothing can replace the Now Polls in our hearts. But koganbot suggested doing polls bassed on the Village Voice Pazz and Jop feature, and that seemed a good idea to me.

The what and what? The Pazz and Jop poll* is an annual poll published by the Village Voice newspaper** in New York. The idea is that every rock critic in America - and latterly in THE WHOLE WORLD (sort of) - gets to vote for their favourite albums and singles of the year. We'll be looking at the singles polls here, historically the poor relation of the albums polls ftb loads of critics not bothering voting in them.

These polls will be done canon-style, i.e. you pick your favourite ten out of the top thirty singles. Or in this case, because this first one was a small enfeebled thing, you pick your favourite NINE out of 26.

The point of the polls, as well as the usual timewasting comment fun, is to get a handle on how critical opinion works and has shifted and where you agree and don't and all that fun stuff.

Without further ado - TO THE TICKY BOXES.


[Poll #809394]


*don't worry too much about the Pazz bit.

**whether there will still be a Pazz and Jop poll following the VV's recent takeover by The Man, I do not know.

Comments

[koganbot]

No. That's no better than assuming that Paris Hilton is garbage.

[http://users.livejournal.com/xyzzzz__/]

When I first saw the Bangs in this list - here is this single (that not many will mention it when talking about LB anymore) that got onto the list cuz it was released by LB, whom people at VV at the time would've prob been on friendly terms with (did he write for them?). It looks iffy when placed along a list of chart hits for the year (+ the odd punk/new wave thing that might've been a hit). Of course, if its pretty good its all ok.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

On his website Xgau puts in a little apology.

I think it's great though (the placing not the single)! It's funny that an in-joke could get quite high in the poll.

[koganbot]

It's not a joke. What are you guys talking about?

[koganbot]

Is this the "apology" you're referring to?

The Poobahs feel impelled to point out that at least seven of those voting for this disc are intimates of Lester Bangs, and at least one is Lester Bangs himself. They also feel impelled to acknowledge that it's a pretty good record anyway.

That's not an apology. It's a journalist/critic letting you know of potential conflict of interest, and then adding that he thinks the critical judgment is legitimate anyway, despite the potential for conflict of interest. And it wasn't "put" onto his Website. It was printed along with the original poll in early 1980, which was reproduced on his Website.

OK, now that I've counted to a thousand: so far, I'm aghast at this interchange. Assuming without listening to it that a Lester Bangs single sucks is no different from assuming without listening to it that a Paris Hilton or Britney Spears single sucks. And assuming that a vote for it is a joke is no different from assuming that a vote for "...Baby One More Time" or "Stars Are Blind" is a joke.

Anyway, for what it's worth, Lester took his music seriously, and the guitarists on this single were arguably the two best in the city, Bob Quine, who'd been in the Voidoids, and Jody Harris, who'd been in the Contortions. (I'm guessing that this is why Bangs was willing to vote for this without embarrassment; he wasn't just tooting his own horn.)

Also, I don't think the song is that great - as skronk goes, it's not as good as the Voidoids' "Blank Generation" or Teenage Jesus' "Orphans" or the Contortions' "I Can't Stand Myself" or DNA's "Size," to make some relevant comparisons. But it's a legitimate vote.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Frank an "in-joke" is different from a "joke"!

In-Joke vs Joke

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

i.e. the impulse "Wouldn't it be funny/fantastic if we could get this into the Pazz and Jop poll?" has zero implications for the quality or not of the song.

Especially when you parse it as:

"Wouldn't it be fantastic if we could get [song by guy we know] into [authoritative poll run by other guy we know]?" (even leaving aside what Guy B thinks of Guy A) because regardless of quality it's pushing private social context into public social context (which is what an in-joke is) ("hall" into "classroom" if you like!).

When Stylus was doing its Top 50 singles of last year or the year before (forget which) an email went round saying "Let's all vote for "Schnappi"!". This wasn't because we didn't like Schnappi, it's because we DID like it, and wanted it to do well, and overlaid on this would be a feeling that it would tweak the 'authority' of the Top 50 singles, AND also it might be fun to make Nick Southall have to acknowledge it.

And there wouldn't have been any point to that if it wasn't a good record!

Or see also the Top 100 Comics Poll we did on ILX, which has stuff by my brother in, or the Top 60 Comics Characters one, which has characters hugely celebrated on the website which are also legitimate votes.

Now I wasn't there in 1979, and maybe NONE of that stuff was going on. But it seemed to me not unlikely that some of it was!

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I do accept that "apology" was the wrong word to use though - "acknowledgement" would have been better.

[http://users.livejournal.com/xyzzzz__/]

I suppose I should've asked "is it any good?" instead.

I really only heard of Lester's music in passing so I'll chase up on this.

As for the first reply I know what you mean Frank. I wouldn't assume anything about the Paris Hilton until I heard it. But lester's single was released way back, I've never seen a disc or thought to search it till now (the idea of his music never made a dent on my conciousness?).

I'd say there is a slight diff.