when dates go wrong

[martinskidmore.livejournal.com]

Some of you probably know that my last date - my first since breaking up with my last girlfriend four months back - ended in an argument over pop music. She thought that liking Girls Aloud made me a misogynist, since they were obviously selected by a gang of perverted old men just to look good, and who cared about the music? My arguments, when she would listen to any, which was basically never, were that a) no they weren't, they were selected by Pop Idol voters, overwhelmingly young women, and b) that didn't stop the records being great. She then cited an even worse example: Tatu. "Their new album is fantastic," I said, by this point very much wanting the date to be over. This made me a rabid homophobe, since they are clearly not real lesbians. I was rather losing what thread there was to these arguments by this point - and the one thing that kept being repeated, as if it was self-evidently linked to my misogyny and homophobia, was that they were manufactured disposable pop. I realised I've been living in a sheltered world the last few years, and forgot that such thinking was still out there. (The woman expressed a fondness for Jeff Buckley and k.d. lang, who is clearly a proper lesbian.) ((Also, hello, I just joined.))

Comments

[steviespitfire.livejournal.com]

Not on a date as such, but a burgeoning friendship rather fell apart recently when The Other was unwilling to accept my tastes, along similar lines. And, it's not as if my tastes are exclusively popist.

Misogyny, yes, came up but so did The Irony Question. "You don't really like [say] TaTu. You just like them ironically" I expect everyone here has come up against this at some point. It's quite exasperating, as I simply cannot comprehend how someone could like something ironically! It would seem to imply to me:

1. That person x doesn't actually listen to the music, just expresses "appreciation"; in which case = person x doesn't actually like the music

or

2. That person x does listen to the music, but doesn't particularly enjoy it, and wears his/her listening as sort of badge.

Are either of these plausible? I dunno.

Also, are there any plausible responses to this attack? Other than "Well, I just like the music!" The producer/auteur = the future thing has kind of vanished recently...

[steviespitfire.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I'm not sure I have any interest in ploughing through the ILM archives! :)

But yeah, the having good reason for liking what they listen to seems a fine first principle to me.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

They don't even properly lez up anymore!!

Canada Weighs In

[johnnyctunes.livejournal.com]

Re: tAtU or whatever, I think that there's a point at which we should say "too much artifice" and when we're looking at a manufactured concept band (the concept being, of course, they're pseudo-lesbians on the run from, well, nobody) whose music shamelessly apes nu-metal except with a slight Russian flavour and oh guess what it's about lesbians, do you get it yet, well, that's too much. Sugababes and Girls Aloud not so much.

(Also before anyone mentions Bratz Rock Angels consider that I didn't know they were a band shilling for creepy-ass dolls and that I've already said enough Rosaries to repent for it. Sorry.)


Regarding friendships and musical tastes, I think maybe people should just agree to disagree already. You aren't going to shame anyone into liking the music you like. Unless they like Good Charlotte. Then shame away.