UK Pop in '08

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

A prominent music site wants me to do a UK Pop in 2008 end-of-year mix CD and essay. I have plenty of ideas as to what should go on it, but I wanted to tap the Poptimists community for their take on the "themes" of British pop in '08.

Here's what I have so far:

- The triumph of Ronsonism - everyone doing that updated 60s sound. And the capitulation of Xenomania and the old mid-00s pop model.
- An attempted return of stadium rock: coldplay, keane, etc all releasing new records. But none of it very good - also the Oasis album appears to have relatively flopped (yay)
- Brit mainstream indie losing momentum: all the dreadful 'The' bands of the last year or two have been very quiet.
- Signs of life in the art-rock/indie-pop end of indie (I guess the Ting Tings fit in here a bit but I don't like 'em)
- The commercial failure of bassline (why?) and the rise of funky (not that I know much about it!)
- Estelle kicking off the debate over black British pop and its success conditions (also making the year's best #1)

What else!! What next??

Comments

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

Putting a Donk on things (cf Clubland Live Oh Dear God)

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

YES! Mental hardcore emerging as a chart force again. Good point.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Chart dance in the doldrums - it seems to be entirely composed of ancient reissues at this point.

Don't think too much can be made of "the commercial failure of bassline" (also am wary of angles like this cuz they imply the genre was a failure, which it wasn't and isn't - from what I gather the scene is still going strong, it's just that I have been v fickle and moved on to funky) - it's not as though a concerted effort was made to make it a mainstream success beyond a couple of big singles. Funky is much more interesting and potentially long-lasting but who knows when it comes to UK urban music really. It's important to remember that it's been so marginalised that these scenes just do not see themselves as part of mainstream pop in any way at all.

I think the big big theme is conservatism, even more so than usual - everyone's been playing it safe this year.

[catsgomiaow.livejournal.com]

OLD GIFFERS REUNIONS (Take That, Spice Gurls, etc)

Gays in Boybands!

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Yeah you're right, "commercial failure" is too broad, it's more the failure of its commercial momentum rather than of the scene itself - whether this is down to players on the scene, or business people, I don't know, and of course it ties into conservatism too - putting money behind any potentially short-term dance phenom will be a risk people don't want to take.

I'm pretty much uninterested these days in whether something sees itself as part of mainstream pop or not! Partly because I don't think there's a definition of "mainstream pop" which works - just limiting it to the X-Factor and light entertainment is too restrictive, expanding it to "anything consumers are aware of" is too vague. So I might as well throw in anything that catches my ear.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah, it's pop in that sense, but what I'm getting at is that chart performance is a hugely inaccurate barometer to be using when talking about bassline, funky etc given that they're not so invested in it - the focus is on club nights, talking to the existing audience rather than trying to talk beyond them, and the key players can make a good living from that. I'm not even sure whether 'Bongo Jam' will be a hit now - R1 hasn't playlisted it due to racism - but this doesn't diminish its massive success at all.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Right, yes, gotcha. Obviously "chart performance" isn't much of a barometer of anything (though more so than it was a couple of years ago I think) - you have to take into account a whole lot of channels of exposure, and if scenes don't want to opt into those channels then their not showing up isn't relevant (though their showing up anyway would be). But from a critical perspective the signals that something is "pop" - instant appeal, catchiness, innovation, resonance - are the same as they've always been.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Yeah - in which case I think funky is probably the most important development in British pop. Having to talk about the endless manifestations of crap British indie seems a bit depressing in comparison.

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

As well as the Ting Tings bringing art-indie, you've got Sam Sparro bringing art-electro to the charts too?

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

take stock of where the talent-show has actually taken pop to can it go further or is it all downhill now?)? i've been pro it for a while (cz it outs gatekeepers as players; puts judges in the public dock - kym marsh roxors! -- BUT it's very obvious that only certain terrains of 'pop' are taken to fit the bill) (and STILL no one within indie or the avant-garde or even rap wherever has had the gumption to seize the concept and work through it) (in the old old old days pete townshend would have been yr man for this)

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

you can use Scooter's album knocking off Madonna in this too maybe (even tho they're not British)

re: year's best #1

[jauntyalan.livejournal.com]

what's the full list - i can't believe american boy is the best, but it's the best I can recall at the mo.

Re: re: year's best #1

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

1067 19 Jan Basshunter featuring DJ Mental Theo's Bazzheadz Now You're Gone 5
1068 23 Feb Duffy Mercy 5
1069 29 Mar Estelle featuring Kanye West American Boy 4
1070 26 Apr Madonna featuring Justin Timberlake 4 Minutes 4
1071 24 May Ting Tings That's Not My Name 1
1072 31 May Rihanna Take A Bow 2
1073 14 Jun Mint Royale Singin' In The Rain 2
1074 29 Jun Coldplay Viva La Vida 1
1075 5 Jul Ne-Yo Closer 1
1076 12 Jul Dizzee Rascal featuring Calvin Harris & Chrome Dance Wiv Me 4
1077 9 Aug Kid Rock All Summer Long 1
1078 16 Aug Katy Perry I Kissed A Girl 5
1079 23 Sep Kings Of Leon Sex On Fire 3
1080 11 Oct Pink So What 3
1081 1 Nov Girls Aloud The Promise 2
1082 8 Nov X Factor Finalists Hero 2

Re: year's best #1

[jauntyalan.livejournal.com]

fair enough then. i'd rate neyo dizzee/harris and duffy as much as estelle, if not a bit more, but not fussed.

am i the only poptimist that likes Duffy?

[koganbot]

talking to the existing audience rather than trying to talk beyond them

This is good definition of what pop isn't - so some very popular groups could be nonpop in this sense*, while some very marginal and obscure groups could be "pop" or "semipopular" (Christgau's term) rather than indie or underground simply because they're speaking beyond their audience. And people can become accidentally pop in this way.

Could the theme of the piece be, "Um, whadda we do next? Damned if I know."

*To be provocative, one could claim that to play just to the pop audience (whatever that is) isn't very pop.

Re: year's best #1

[nunya-b.livejournal.com]

I like Duffy well enough (especially the new single that is 10000x better than the Bond theme actually picked), but it's sort of a grudging fondness for her music. It's easy to understand why people find her as unlikable as they do- there are so many things one could pick on, from her vocal tics to her stage presence to her relatively humorless personality.

Re: year's best #1

[koganbot]

I like six of those more than "American Boy" ("Mercy," "4 Minutes," "Closer," "I Kissed A Girl," "The Promise") and a whole bunch more about equal, but I'm not a big fan of American Boy. Of course, only "Mercy" and "The Promise" are by Brits.

Is not a very good set of number ones.

Another ongoing trend is that the Tashbed singer-songwriter princess thing continues to expand its range; in their different ways Amy Winehouse and Duffy are bringing the Tashbed s-s sensibility to neo-soul, and Gabriella Cilmi and Adele are doing their own variants (although Cilmi is an Aussie, she's big on the Brit charts).

Why do you say Xenomania has capitulated? Is "The Promise" really all that Ronsonesque? (Actually I have no idea if it's by Xenomania. Also, I've never paid enough specific attention to get a sense of Ronson.)

What about September's "Cry For You," which was recorded a couple of years ago but was a mainstay on the UK charts this year, and is updated '80s not updated '60s (and she's not British and I have no idea who produced it, but it is definitely part of an ongoing post-Hi-NRG dancepop thing that I wouldn't expect will go away, though who knows)?

Wiley's "Wearing My Rolex" - I wouldn't say it exemplifies anything, but is easily the strongest British track in my top 50. (Only 5 British songs in that 50, which I suppose is a hefty 10 percent, but the fact that I've been paying unusual attention to the Brit charts over the last few years via my participation in Year In Pop makes that number seem small to me.)

Re: year's best #1

[koganbot]

Er, I really did like six more than "American Boy," just forgot to list "Now You're Gone."

[koganbot]

And people can become accidentally pop in this way.

I.e., an unexpected audience decides that the music is speaking to them, even though this wasn't planned by the musicmakers.

Re: year's best #1

[koganbot]

Producers of "Cry For You": Jonas Von Der Burg, Anoo Bhagavan, Niclas Von Der Burg.

Re: year's best #1

[koganbot]

And of course "The Promise" is produced by Xenomania (I'm assuming that Wiki is telling the truth).

what we can learn from x-factor

[byebyepride.livejournal.com]

Assuming this year's x-factor is a good guide to what people think will sell: there is a big space for a new black R&B boyband; people are still looking for the new Estelle / Duffy i.e. the new Josh Stone i.e. girl singers with a hint of retro. No-one has a clue what to do with a strong female R&B singer (who worships Mary J Blige and was awful when presented as either P!nk-style rawk or Robyn-style electro-pop. The Great British Public still like the idea of a decent honest geezer bashing out standards with none of this flash stuff, but no-one would like him enough to buy the records. Mentors keep trying 'versions' of songs as previously tried out in the US, to no-one's real satisfaction, mostly attempts to present 'manufactured' pop in a more 'emotional' (i.e. semi-acoustic) light. All forms of retro alive and well but no-one really sure what stands for 'the future'.

Big stories as far as I can see (and this year I have been VERY distant from British pop) are prolonged and disabling segregation of hip-hop R&B etc from the mainstream (Radio 1 vs 1-extra) and continued holding of centreground by retro-girls and rockists (Radio 1, Radio 2, 6 music). Everybody knowing that there's something missing, but everyone still unsure whether the pop middle-ground has gone for good, or whether it's still there, waiting for the right moment.

You could mention the Sunday papers giving away 'classic' albums on CD (e.g. New Order, Love, Talking Heads) and what this tells us about what has become canon.

Re: what we can learn from x-factor

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

Whenever someone ponders the 'future of pop' I imagine a girl popstar with short hair and ridiculous clothes shooting lazers out of her hands while she sings (i.e. ME).

Tick:

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

HIGGINS B
COOPER M
RESCH J
WILLIAMS C
JONES K
WARNER CHAPPELL MUSIC
XENOMANIA SONGS LTD

Re: what we can learn from x-factor

[(Anonymous)]

Yes! Strange days indeed – get Psychocandy with your morning copy of The Times…