Readers Poll 07: LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT plus ARGUMENT OF THE YEAR

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

A double-header today - the prestigious Lifetime Achievement award, one careless owner in James Brown, and the contentious Argument of the Year award. Astute readers may notice the effects of the randomiser in these.

[Poll #1108552]

Meanwhile the TRACKS OF THE YEAR spreadsheet just keeps on GROWING. 118 different tracks named so far, with two acts getting FIVE different ones each. Send YOUR top 10 to leagueofpop@gmail.com before New Years to be counted.

Comments

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

Lifetime achievement = much easier to judge when someone has actually died!

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

As soon as someone nominated Tony Wilson I knew I'd be voting for him.

The arguments were much harder:

Britney at the VMAs - not much of an argument rly: dreadful performance, and about the only quarrel to be had was with the people affecting disgust over a half-inch of belly fat. And that particular argument was just depressing. Also, the performance set "Car Crash Britney" as the Big Fact around her, which meant that more interesting arguments about Blackout never really happened.

Death of Oink - this was one of the big EVENTs of the year but actual sensible argument on it drowned out pretty quick. It brought a lot of stuff to a head (entitlement, piracy, the taste make-up of the net) but a lot of the discussion was just name calling. (Thinking about big Idolator-led arguments though I wish I'd remembered the Black Kids spat)

Is Indie Too White? - AARGH, actually the initial arguments around this were all feeble (B-b-but what about Spoon? O RLY????) but Carl W's and Frank K's pieces in response were excellent, so pushing the old buttons was worthwhile one more time.

Klaxons and Nu Rave - got my tick because I enjoyed talking about them (almost certainly more than listening to them) and the question of what a 'nu rave' MIGHT sound like is an intriguing one too.

Poptimists vs K-Punk - you must be joking.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Erm, who IS Tony Wilson?

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Founded Factory Records (thus inventing the good bits of indie)
Funded the Hacienda (thus inventing club culture in Britain)
Also all-round media face, link in 101 cultural chains, tireless defender and promoter of energy and thrill-power over boring canonicity. And a complete twat sometimes too.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I don't believe that the same person could be responsible for UK club culture AND any bits of indie! Though I've never heard of Factory Records either.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

The thing with Wilson is that the music he actually got excited about you wouldn't like, but his attitude generally was that the kids are basically right and if they want to go and rave their bollocks off to imported house, rare groove, disco or locally-grown 'ardkore than he was right behind it and would throw money at it.

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

Their only really notable successes wer Joy Division/New Order, and the Happy Mondays. All the other bands were piss-poor to be perfectly honest.

East Side West Side South Side Northside

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

erm erm A Certain Ratio were OK.

Tim likes the Stockholm Monsters IIRC.

Dubdobdee favourite Cath Carroll was on Factory maybe?

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

OK I have just wikipedia's him and it says he is responsible for the HAPPY MONDAYS and MADCHESTER, ie Oasis.

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

NO

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

He had nothing at all to do with Oasis! He'd gone bust by then.

Happy Mondays and Joy Division/New Order were his big successes, which is why I said you wouldn't like the actual music.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Weren't Oasis descended from or inspired by Madchester or something?

I REALLY hate Happy Mondays.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I know!

The Oasis/Madchester link is that Noel Gallagher was a roadie for core Madchester band the Inspiral Carpets. He was inspired by the Stone Roses too, so while Oasis doesn't generally sound much like Madchester bands there's a definite connection. But they can't directly be blamed on Wilson.

I am fonder of Madchester than its actual music merits, cos I was 16 when it happened and the IDEA (as read about in the music press) of this incredible kaleidoscopic collision of rock, dance, indie etc. seemed very new and exciting. All it actually meant, with the possible exception of the Mondays, was that the bands took E and went raving and then went back and made the exact same records they'd have made anyway.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

OK so the KLAXONS OF THEIR TIME.

Then as now: ONE STAR.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I think this is also why I'm fond of the Klaxons!

It was quite a girl-unfriendly scene too! In fact I honestly can't think of a single baggy or indie-dance single you'd enjoy.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

do you like Rowetta (the Mondays bellowy lady singer who would later turn up on X Factor)?

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I don't know, I don't remember a lady singer? I've never heard of her either. I've never actually watched X Factor apart from at the start of the series to laugh at the incompetents tbh.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Oh also, how are the tracks going to work? Like...if these are just nominations, should I focus on tracks which other people won't nominate? Because I assume that someone out there has nominated 'Umbrella' already, for example.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

No, the tracks is an actual final poll - 12 points for 1st, 10 for 2nd, 8 down to 1 for the rest.

[zenith.livejournal.com]

What was the Black Kids spat?

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Jess' "THE BLOGS HAVE GONE TOO FAR THIS TIME" post over MP3 blog hype after CMJ. If you type Idolator into google it's like the second hit after the frontpage.

[zenith.livejournal.com]

Dear God why does it start with exactly the same construction as the K-Punk/Reynolds objection to poptimism/MIA/howsyerfather?

[sbp.livejournal.com]

What's an Oink? Is it like Oi?

[jeff-worrell.livejournal.com]

You need an invitation before we can tell you.

[jeff-worrell.livejournal.com]

^ Note: this is all I know about the matter too.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I nominated Girls Aloud for Lifetime Achievement because it is traditionally the "please retire now" award, but as Kat says death changes everything. So Pimp C. I don't know who two of the people in this category are!

Re: argument -

- Britney at the VMAs wasn't really an argument at all! Maybe Britney vs The World, but The World was kind of unanimous here in shouting "OMG get help"
- The only people arguing re: the death of Oink were dumb spoilt indie kids with alarming senses of entitlement. Everyone else just said "oh shut up you idiots, get over it"
- Is Indie White? was potentially a good argument spoilt by completely dumb premise which completely missed the hows and whys of racial discrimination in the mainstream music press
- Klaxons and Nu-Rave - haha. I maintain I won this one
- which leaves Us v K-Punk which was a proper argument, won by us. Hurrah!

[koganbot]

but The World was kind of unanimous here in shouting "OMG get help"

Wasn't this the reaction to K-Punk as well?

(Or it should have been.)

[koganbot]

Lifetime achievement:

Max Martin clearly the best on the list, but not for anything he did this year, so no tick.

Tony Wilson. Just didn't make that much difference to me, though clearly his dying makes him relevant for this award (ditto Pimp C).

So, Britney by default, especially given all the dorks who said that HER CAREER WAS OVER! And she also got my vote for best argument, though that's a default vote too (all my other votes or near votes* for her are wildly enthusiastic). Last year's Paris argument was far superior. (And last year's Paris album was superior too, though that's closer.)

*I've still got her only at second on my albums list, though watch out Aly & A.J., she's gaining on you.

[datura800.livejournal.com]

Argh! I didn't see Tony Wilson. I am an idiot. Yes my vote should be for him.

I don't for a second think that his death should guarantee him it, tho I am pretty amazed that any Brit with a big love of music wouldn't know who he was...

[celentari.livejournal.com]

Seconded! I'd change my vote from Britney but, er, I can't be arsed. REALLY surprised that anyone would have not heard of him, esp after films like 24 Hour Party People and Control.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I've never heard of those films either!

[carsmilesteve.livejournal.com]

have you got early onset alzhiemers dear? control is like one of the biggest most talked about films of the year, and also about music. ditto for 24hpp three/four years ago...

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I just looked them up - I didn't know Control was the Joy Division one, I knew about it but wasn't interested enough to remember the title! Never heard of the other one. The only film about music I can remember actually wanting to see recently is Dreamgirls (which I didn't manage to see!), everything else tends to be about boring musicians...

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

sometimes i wonder whether you actually *like* music, lex!

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I don't like bad music!

[celentari.livejournal.com]

:0 x 10!
Tho doubtless this is the reaction of people when I showcase my ignorance of music on this here site.

[nicolars.livejournal.com]

Neither did I. I am getting senile.

[anatol-merklich.livejournal.com]

Wow "arguments" poll is CLOSE.

[justfanoe.livejournal.com]

I don't like giving lifetime achievement awards to people who are no longer relevant, and I barely know who Tony Wilson is. I nominated and voted for Max Martin.

All arguments this year were boring. I voted Britney at the VMAs.

The First Time I've Ever (Almost) Abstained from an Argument About Arguments.

[skyecaptain.livejournal.com]

My lifetime achievement vote is maybe a little premature (for Max). I guess Tony Wilson probably deserves it, but I have no real personal history with him to draw from.

I hated all of these arguments, actually. I thought Britney at the VMAs was ugly all around, was glad to see the Death of Oink but certainly didn't want to TALK about it, thought the INDIE TOO WHITE (which I voted for) led to some interesting side-discussions that were related but was itself kind of misguided, or at least not really getting at any problems that I actually observe/recognize (enough to want to argue about passionately), no idea about Klaxons and Nu Rave, and Poptimists v. K-runk would require there to be an actual argument from the inciting/war-declaring side to count as an argument. All I got out of it was that he doesn't think I'm funny :(

PS - The title of my first post should have been:

[skyecaptain.livejournal.com]

[andthatisthat.livejournal.com]

Normally Max Martin would've been a no-brainer, but this year he was responsible for that godawful Shayne Ward single, and he is now pretty much dead to me.

[skyecaptain.livejournal.com]

Amy Diamond! (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q2YN1pxXWsk) Redeemed?

[andthatisthat.livejournal.com]

It's definitely a step in the right direction. :D