poptimists | "srsly poptimists need 1x CRASH COURSE in contemporary hip-hop"

I guess my starter for 10 on the first one wd be to push back against the (unspoken) idea that there is a "contemporary hip-hop" that's happening somewhere else, comprehensible and accessible. I don't buy into the idea that hip-hop's in aesthetic decline (commercially? I dunno) but where would the centre of it be?

It would certainly be true to say I haven't especially FOLLOWED hip-hop this year, or for a while - there's I think two hip-hop records in my top 25. Maybe my impression that there WAS once some kind of coherence to the development of hip-hop is historicising it and is too filtered through my means of finding out about it back then i.e. the Brit music press, no street bible they.

[I am away from the computer for most of today so when I return I am expecting plenty of derision]

Does hip-hop need to have rapping in it?

With the odd exception, I've never been that gripped by hip-hop. It doesn't (based on what I've heard thus far) seem to speak to me, aesthetically, lyrically or musically. Is there something I should hear that would change my mind?

I'm generally pretty open-minded genre-wise, and enjoy pop, indie, swing, big band, rock, metal, some rap, dance, electro, house etc, etc. and am kind of disappointed in myself that I don't seem bothered by hip-hop, but maybe all I need is to hear the right tracks.

I understand that poptimists might not hear US hip-hop in the first place - that's a failing of the system really, whereby US rappers have no need or interest in breaking the UK, and where UK radio and media turns its nose up at US rappers - but it's been worrying and slightly depressing that poptimists basically show 0 interest in the genre. It's not even something like grime or minimal where you need to delve particularly deep into the genre to follow it - you can skim the particular rappers or producers who appeal most, or just follow the big hitz, and anyway I don't want to hear anyone complaining that following hip-hop is too much effort when everyone seemed to magically get hold of the boring Girls Aloud album within seconds of it leaking.

So my question is: why don't you YES YOU like hip-hop - what is it that puts you off even taking an interest even when someone (usually me) goes "hey listen to this it's awesome"?

And my recommendations on the year:

in terms of albums the only really essential ones I've heard are Hyphy Hitz (SERIOUSLY) and Lil' Wayne's Da Drought 3 mixtape, which is basically him doing his surreal wordplay over a selection of famous recent beats. The rhythm of his flow is totally screwy, you kind of...have to learn to count along in a very off-kilter way, it's very enjoyable doing this. Oh and pick up his Tha Carter III album from last year while you're at it.

Singles however is a nigh-on endless list of hott stuffz - no time to really write in detail but believe, every one of these is fucking incredible:

Crime Mob ft Lil' Scrappy - Rock Yo Hips ("I got 32 flavours of that bootylicious bubblegum")
USDA - White Girl (esp the rmx with Lil' Wayne, Fabolous etc etc) ("you know we keep that white girl, like to call her Tammy/Born in Colombia, she moved to Miami")
Gucci Mane ft Lil' Kim & Ludacris - Freaky Gurl ("I'm a freak so I don't care, just don't get nothin' in my hair")
Trina - Single Again ("Stop! Wait a goddamned minute: it ain't over til I say we finished!")
P Diddy ft Keyshia Cole - Last Night ("ALL CRIED OUT WITH NOTHING TO SAY")
Young Buck - Get Buck ("I can serve Whitney Houston AND Bobby Brown")
T-Pain ft Yung Joc - Buy U A Drank (Shawty Snappin') (eh, it's all about the bounce, not the words)
Eve - Tambourine ("got you going crazy, well that was the plan")
Chamillionaire ft Kelis - Not A Criminal

plus the big dumb hits obv - Mims, Soulja Boy et al.

And loads more that I have forgotten as well!

Why I will always like some hip-hop: TEH BEATZ
Why I will always hate some hip-hop: TEH THEMATIC BANKRUPTCY

It's like what I said about Britney - not really interested in the message but still intrigued and entertained by the medium...to varying extents. The message might be so boring that it over-rules any other aspect of the track I might like. I probably do give hip-hop a harder time over this than other genres but that's because of the cultural precipice (an issue of artist-listener trust - should i be investing in this music? am i wanted here?) that has improved in some ways over 25 years but worsened in others.

Unfortunately, whether due to not keeping up or it not being there or both, I haven't heard enough hip-hop this year that intrigued or entertained me from that sonic angle. Have pretty much given up on expecting thematic novelty - unfair maybe. That's still all it takes to get me interested initially tho.

Kano and Craig David, that were lovely that was. Probably not hip-hop though is it. What is hip-hop anyway? Is 'DVNO' by Justice hip-hop? No it is not, is it.

Halp, genre failure. I've always maintained that I need a crash course in hip-hop anyway.

I still think that hiphop is Rapper's Delight and Grandmaster Flash and so on.

1. Pretty much every website on which I've ever discussed music, with the exception of actual hip-hop boards, has had a significant number of people on it (often the majority) who didn't "get" contemporary (mainstream) hip-hop... By which I mean not only that they weren't fans, but that they had some kind of additional aversion or resistance to it, sometimes couched in moral or pseudo-political terms. The obvious major exception to this would be ILM (at its peak, but still to an extent today), where I've often been made to realise how relative these things are and how little I know myself. So yes, I think it is a gap for poptimism, and it's a gap for me too.

2. I have been very out of touch this year, I feel... Yet at the same time the year feels so divided up into different chunks that it is hard to assess what stuff I heard is better than others. In spring I was all about the El-P album, I'll Sleep When You're Dead (astonishing that I could ever like a song featuring the Mars Volta, but I do). In the summer it was all about catching up with mainstream stuff - 'Pussy' by Clipse, 'Go DJ' by Lil Wayne... More recently: the tracks I've heard from the new Jay-Z album are all great and I'll be getting that on Monday; ditto 'Celebrate' by Ghostface and a bunch of tracks that won't be on his album, including 'The Odd Couple' with Cappadonna and 'Crambodia' with Plastic Little, Spank Rock and Amanda Blank (getting Ghost on this track was obviously a massive coup). Oh, and I literally just heard for the first time 'Drop & Give Me 50' by Mike Jones and Hurricane Chris, which is fantastic and seems to feature a Fox N Wolf reference? Maybe?

Uh. I am rubbishly unaware of any hip-hop at the moment. I used to know some, when

misteryguest was pointing me towards things. But that was, like, 3 years ago at least. Maybe I'll go for some of those recommendations up there.

Is that Lethal Bizzle track anything to do with the Clash track (well, cover) of the same name?

I like hip-hop if it's got a good girl vocal in it, usually. All other sins become pretty much forgiveable in those cases...

Sorry to say I've not been listening to enough new music of late, hip-hop or otherwise - it's that no radio at home/no music at work/no music on computer bind!

I'm as amenable to hip-hop as to any other genre but I'm old and dull, I play my Roots Manuva albums over and over I'm afraid.

I myself wouldn't mind a crash course on the Varieties Of Hip-Hop Experience, from indie-undie to snap and hyphy. There's so much, so varied.

I've only been giving side-listens to hip-hop this year, hope to make up for that a bit in the next couple of weeks. My guess is that most of the action is in snap and crunk and hyphy (whereas I've never warmed to the Houston sound), but I wouldn't really know.

In any event, even though everyone's gone home, the following are singles in my current 2007 top 60 that I'd say are hip-hop/r&b-related (or in the case of Ashley Tisdale, aren't, but have a rap in it, even though there are two other, better Tisdales also in my top 60, and they both have raps too, but since the raps are by Tisdale rather than an authentic black-sounding rapper-type person I guess they don't count, though I'd claim that "Not Like That" is actually far closer to hip-hop/r&b than "Be Good To Me" is; was produced by a Jew rather than an Italian); I italicized the ones that seem more hip-hop qua hip-hop than the others. I bolded The Go! Team for being the most WTF song on the list (an authentic old-school Bronx-style rap whooshed up in a blender). I arbitrarily decided to include a dancehall and a reggaeton track on this list, but to exclude ska.

Lloyd f. Lil Wayne "You"
Britney Spears "Gimme More"
Yung Berg f. Junior "Sexy Lady"
Paula DeAnda f. Lil Wayne "Easy"
Keak Da Sneak "That Go"
Natasha "Hey Hey Hey"
Rihanna f. Jay-Z "Umbrella" [also the remix w/ Lil Mama]
Britney Spears "Piece Of Me"
Rihanna "Shut Up And Drive"
Sadie Ama "Fallin'"
Lil Mama "Lip Gloss"
T2 f. Jodie Aysha "Heartbroken"
Unklejam "What Am I Fighting For?"
The Fixxers "Can You Werk Wit Dat"
Gorilla Zoe "Hood Nigga"
Keak Da Sneak "N Fronta Yo Momma House"
Ashley Tisdale "Be Good To Me"
Redman "Put It Down"
M.I.A. "Bird Flu"
The Go! Team "Grip Like A Vice"
Dude 'N Nem "Watch My Feet"
Lethal Bizzle "Police On My Back"
Enrique Iglesias f. Lil Wayne "Push"
Shaggy "Church Heathen"
James Deano "Les Blancs Ne Savent Pas Danser"
Groove Armada f. Lady Stush "Get Down"
Mims "This Is Why I’m Hot"
Daddy Yankee "Impacto"
Trick Daddy f. Baby "Tuck Ya Ice"

Subject for further research: the new Kid Rock album (don't know if it has any raps on it).

new rap i've liked this year, in a year where i've been kind of tuned out:

the devin the dude album
the prodigy of mobb deep 'mixtape' (officially released, nothing much keeping it from being an album)
hyphy hitz

other singles i liked besides ones by them: some crime mob ones, and 'brand new funk 2k7' by peedi crakk and dj jazzy jeff (remaking jeff and the fresh prince version)

parts of the ugk 2cd album have been very satisfying, but so far overall it wasn't what i was hoping it would be. pimp c pretty great, best i've heard him in some places, but bun b sounds a little unconfident, uncreative, and many of the beats are a little too influenced by more contemporary sounds than i'd like. some songs great though, and 'big dick cheney and tony snow' still = awesome new aliases.

the j-zone mixes (mostly of every undergroundish production he's ever done) i got off some blog are pretty entertaining, i haven't listened to them much yet though.

i had hopes for the new 8ball + mjg album but it was kind of boring. mjg came super hard though.

i didn't click with turf talk's much-anticipated album. wc's new album on his new record label was kind of pathetically underdone (and i really really loved his 'west side heavy hitter' mix, and the first westside connection album, too).

waiting on the new scarface album (dec.?) and freeway album (have yet to steal!) - like the freeway single, and a demo i heard leaked a long long time ago with scarface guesting; the first single from scarface's album is pretty hot, with some bitter look-woman-this-is-how-i-roll-so-you-ain't-gonna-hurt-me wisdom-slash-self-deception-slash-cruelty.

i guess i'll see about the new wu-tang, but i'm not bothered either way right now.

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Daft Question

Bold sweeping statements R us

Re: Daft Question

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Hip-Hop/R&B In My 2007 Top 60

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