badly-phrased q bcs I am hungover and preoccupied, sorry!

[catsgomiaow.livejournal.com]

alexmacpherson says on his LJ that the Tori Amos album might make his top 5 albums of the year list, but "suspect[s] this is only because it's her". I thought this might be an interesting idea to bat about.

- have you ever bought a record by your favourite act KNOWING that it was going to be a bit crap, but "because it's them" had to have it? I guess this is a question really about dissecting yr loyalties - for example, I buy every album that Kristin Hersh makes. The last few haven't, if I'm honest, been all that good (though the most recent "Learn To Sing Like A Star" has some truly outstanding stuff on it) but I just sort of feel I OWE her for making some of the most important records in my life, and for being amazing generally. And because she has kids to support and is one of the few people around whose work quite literally IS their life, if you see what I mean, and I think she works hard and is dedicated in a way that, for example, Girls Aloud don't SEEM to (note I say SEEM to, I'm sure they work very hard etc etc). My Kristin-love does not extend to buying 50FootWave records though :(


- at what point do you STOP putting up with sub-par offerings? I bought every REM record up to "Monster" (haha I remember being off school that day and walking up to Woolworths to buy it on cassette even though I thought "What's The Frequency, Kenneth" was a bit sh1t). I tried and tried but really couldn't get into it (tho again, there were a few good tracks). The next time they released an album I didn't buy it and haven't bought one since - I don't know if they lost their magic, or if it was me that had changed, or what!

- who (if anyone) will you always ALWAYS buy every single record by, even if they release a Cliff Richard covers album?

Comments

[fathands.livejournal.com]

Belle and Sebastian. The Clientele. Camera Obscura. Although I am not a completist - singles etc go under my radar. It's just albums.

[catsgomiaow.livejournal.com]

I suppose the word I haven't mentioned is "completist" - I have flirted with completistness but never really seen the need (or had the money) to own EVERY SINGLE THING that an artist has done... who here's a completist, eh? Own up!

[hoshuteki.livejournal.com]

I had almost the same for REM, but I stuck it out to New Adventures in Hi-Fi and then stopped. Oddly, Monster is their only album I haven't ditched, possibly out of some inner contrariness. Doesn't mean I've actually listened to it, though.

For the last question, it must be Scott Walker and the Mountain Goats.

And since you mention Tori, my early period (which is datable to my late-teens) of collecting everything released on every format by my favourite acts was (thankfully) brought to a close with Tori Amos's "Professional Widow" 12" remix (I think it was by Armand van Helden). I found it so pointless that I barely bought anything for the next few years while I reassessed what I actually liked in music, and ended up selling off most of my records I'd bought to that point, including the Tori. And the ironic thing is, if I were to listen again now to the stuff I bought back then, I'd probably like that remix more than most of it...

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

I'll buy any old sh1te that Elastica release :)

[catsgomiaow.livejournal.com]

Ah you went ahead and mentioned the word I'd been looking for!

Tho you missed tompaulin off your list *sad face*

[catsgomiaow.livejournal.com]

I knew you were going to say that :)

[fathands.livejournal.com]

I have only ever owned 1 tompaulin cd single. I'm sorry! I paid for it though, and everything!

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I thought I'd finally passed this stage with Tori when she released The Beekeeper which was SO bad that I basically didn't pay any attention to her for two years - but I ended up hearing American Doll Posse anyway and, um, for the most part couldn't stop. I think it's good, and can definitely say why I think it's good beyond it just being Tori and me being attuned to her, but I've basically got to the stage where I have NO IDEA how she sounds to other people. I have no idea how people who weren't obsessed with her would hear it, whether they'd like it, and if so for what reasons.

Also, I think what's key here is that you lose all sense of what "subpar" even means when it comes to certain artists - I think this is because Tori/PJ/Bjork make such a big thing out of refusing to just retread old styles, too...

[catsgomiaow.livejournal.com]

I paid for it though

YOU WUZ ROBBED ;)

[fathands.livejournal.com]

I'll probably buy anything by neko case in the future, but given that I don't yet own everything by her yet I can't really make any claims in this area.

OH oh, the SHINS. I will buy all their stuff until, I dunno, the singer agrees to my proposal of marriage, which he is as yet unaware of (and will remain that way).

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Ha I own everything Tori's released! Well. During the years I was ignoring her she brought out a box set with previously unreleased tracks which I didn't bother with, but I d/lded them this year, so I think I have basically every song she's recorded - though she's now recording and releasing all her gigs as official bootlegs and I am entirely unbothered about those, while I suspect in the late 90s I wouldn't have been...

[fathands.livejournal.com]

Haha, oh well, I'm not even sure it's in my possession any longer, I may have sold it for drvg money.

[martinv.livejournal.com]

Nearly every band I like. And I'm usually loyal to them even through obvious crapness. My get out clause on this is that I never try and make any case for these albums' relevance to the world at large, but I'm still going to enjoy them, thanks.

New Adventures in Hi-Fi is REM's best album though, imo. Bad timing.

[boyofbadgers.livejournal.com]

I have every Sonic Youth album up till and including Murray Street. It's odd I perservered for them for so long and then gave up then, on an album which was at least half good. It's like I had a limited number of sh1t SY tracks I could bear to hear and the bad ones on MS tipped me over the edge, despite it being a much better record than e.g. NYC Ghosts And Flowers. I've no interest in hearing anything new by them now.

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

Hurrah! Excellent questions tho Ktee, I shall now try and answer them properly:

1. Most recent example is probably the Underworld album, although I didn't *know* it was going to be a bit crap, I just assumed it would be good as all their other albums were! Due to lack of £££ when I was younger it was always quite rare that I'd buy an album I'd heard fewer than 2 tracks off already, so nasty surprises didn't happen very often (way more often the unheard album turned out amazing!).
2. I like to think I judge each album on its merits! Though I won't be buying more Underworld albums in a hurry.
3. As well as Elastica I used to be quite Radiohead completist (yes yes I know) but I totally haven't bothered getting In Rainbows yet. Actually if they did a Cliff Richard covers album that would be AWESOME TO THE MAX.

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

2. Or any Skunk Anansie albums. Luckily they split up after their last (shit) album.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

That remix is seriously instrumental in turning me from a trip-hop/singer-songwriter teenager into a dance lover!

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I think another crucial thing is that the tipping point might be "when you know what it's going to sound like" - from what I know of REM (the singles) they got v predictable towards the end so I can imagine hearing more of the same and just not wanting to bother. Whereas the first thing I heard off American Doll Posse was...a catchy rockabilly song about how she was a MILF! So I knew it wasn't going to be another stage in her blanding down from the get go...

[boyofbadgers.livejournal.com]

There isn't anyone left on the automatic buy list really. I'll probably buy Kristin's next album on the basis that there will likely be one amazing track on it that I wouldn't hear elsewhere. Girls Aloud, maybe, but even then, if the lead singles of their next album are rubbish, I might not bother.

[boyofbadgers.livejournal.com]

Is the new Clientele any good? I've been meaning to buy it for a while
but keep forgetting whenever I'm in an actual record shop.

[bengraham.livejournal.com]

I'm a Grandaddy completist - I even splashed out £40 recently to get a rare album that was only available when they gave a limited number away free at a small number of gigs on one of their smaller tours. I reckon there are about 1,000 of them in existence. I believe I have everything they ever released apart from a couple of obscure split singles that only came out in Holland, and their very first EP, of which only 100 exist in the whole world.

[cis.livejournal.com]

^ I was about to make almost this exact same comment (for some reason i never bought evol or the self-titled). MS I bought and then didn't listen to for ages, even, I think because I suspected that it was going to be the one that tipped me over the edge and I didn't want that moment to happen. (and I like NYCG&F! a lot!)

[fathands.livejournal.com]

Personally not very compelled by it - still pretty good, but it hasn't grown on me like the others did. I can sort you out a copy if you like? They seem to have altered a little lately in their sound - much more light and airy than before, which doesn't do as much for me as previous stuff.

[bengraham.livejournal.com]

I've already answered the completist question above, but in response to #2, I bought Courtney Love's 'America's Sweetheart' even though I knew it was probably going to be quite poo, because I loved Hole's albums so much. But the CL solo album was not just any old poo, it was the worst kind, to the extent that I will not be buying any subsequent releases (not even the posthumous Best Of that is sure to arrive soon if she keeps on the drugs).

[lockedintheatti.livejournal.com]

Prince. I still buy every album even though I know it's years since I loved one all the way through. I even made an attempt to be a completist back when I was a teenager. And if there is one artist NOT to attempt to be a completist with, it's Prince.

[boyofbadgers.livejournal.com]

Odd thing about SY's post Dirty albums is that there seems to be 0 consensus on which are the better and which are worse, despite nearly everyone agreeing that there was a decline in their output from the mid nineties onwards. I'm always suprised by how much some people dislike 10,000 Leaves frexample, which I think has about a 50% hit rate, yet praise Washing Machine, which I struggle to get much out of.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I really like America's Sweetheart!

[the-roofdog.livejournal.com]

Why didn't they split up after their first (shit) album, etc

[cis.livejournal.com]

I am one of those people! I find 1000 Leaves nigh-unbearable and while in general Washing Machine isn't a top favourite, 'little trouble girl' really is. Loving NYCG&F has always felt like my own personal lone-loonyism, though: maybe my mental image of the critical consensus is too affected by that pfork review.

[hoshuteki.livejournal.com]

Goodbye Twentieth Century FTW!

[boyofbadgers.livejournal.com]

I can't remember anything specific about NYCG+F at all! Not a solitaty hook o a single line. I have a vague recollection of thinking oh god it's Experimental Jet Set II: Negative Star, but that's it.

[cis.livejournal.com]

...Experimental Jet Set's my favourite! We may have isolated something here.

[boyofbadgers.livejournal.com]

Aha! I don't hate EJS, but to me it felt v.much like a failed attempt to get back to the EVOLish space that they'd lost over the previous four records.

[boyofbadgers.livejournal.com]

It also marked the point where Kim's songwriting started losing the plot big style.

[cis.livejournal.com]

It was the first SY record I ever owned, so it may have set my mental image of what they sounded like; if EVOL's at all like it I'll have to see if I can find a secondhand copy over here (I used to buy a Sonic Youth record every time I went overseas, so it'd be a nice return to tradition). NYCG&F does have a very similar feel to the fragmentary Kim songs on EJS: I think it does them better, in fact, because they're so much stiller, more uneasy. And it's not just her doing them.

[mooxyjoo.livejournal.com]

oi there are no shit tracks on murray street, that record is a beautiful flower

[mooxyjoo.livejournal.com]

'nevermind' (with the refrain 'what was it anyway')

[mooxyjoo.livejournal.com]

i don't think 'everyone agrees that there was a decline' makes sense of the nature of the consensus. it's more that people generally assent to 'old sonic youth = good sonic youth', and dissent from 'later sonic youth = good sonic youth' simply because for the former. but then when they examine what they actually think about the ups and downs of sy's career, that general narrative scheme breaks down. but it doesn't get started without the critical commonplace (suspect for lots of obvious reasons) that 'daydream nation' (or something close to it) is the classic.

[mooxyjoo.livejournal.com]

the two i would keep buying everything from, at the moment: sonic youth and smog.

i've quit buying lots of bands. but while poor quality might matter (more often in retrospect, with these kinds of bands - you're so committed that you try to like it and see the best in it, so you don't feel free to recognize its true quality until much later on), simple change may be more important to me as a reason to give up, now. maybe the last few low albums are good, but they've just changed too much to be of interest to me right now.

sonic youth and smog do seem to both try for changing-but-being-the-same, in large measures, over the courses of their careers, which probably makes them easier to commit to in this way. but i think for me it may be more important that i had to come to them very slowly - there were several albums by each where, despite liking one record, i didn't really warm to the next one i heard until quite a while later; and then this repeated with other records of theirs. being forced to adapt and appreciate more slowly made me more patient. i haven't especially liked bill callahan's new record (not as 'smog') yet, but i haven't tried too hard, and i figure its charms will be revealed eventually.

there's a good ilm thread about this kind of question in which sonic youth come up prominently. stereolab too? and bowie, and some others.

[pot80.livejournal.com]

That's really too bad, the album after Monster is one of their best records ever, New Adventures In Hi-Fi.

Of course, Monster is actually my #1 favorite R.E.M. record, so whatever.

[anatol-merklich.livejournal.com]

Ago: ALWAYS hoover up everything at sight*
Now: NO LOYALTY w/s/evs!**

at what point do you STOP putting up with sub-par offerings?
This falls only into the "ago" category, due to 2nd reply above. Answer: at teh reunion. Madness ahem. Reunion was closer to "now" though, so probably inconclusive.

*) Prob also has to do with the (in these discussions seemingly inevitable) pre-/post-everything-available divide (and maybe even more so for me because geography/distribution – get it while you've got your eyes on it!). I'll not go into the "buy/dl" thing here though (but see below) – I could well see myself downloading the collected-works-since-I-dropped-em of some Old Heroes if I were still on illegit dl channels.

**) K-hersh may actually be an exception here now you mention it (oh ok K-bush is another, but that doesn't bother my bank account or shelves too much) – I may not necessarily buy a newly-released record by her when it appears or for a year or five thereafter, but I'll probably get it sooner or later. (Aside: thank you 4ad for dealing with emusic hurrah!) Speaking of which...
My Kristin-love does not extend to buying 50FootWave records though :(
FROWNYFACE INDEED.

[martinv.livejournal.com]

Dulli & Saint Etienne - excellent taste, that's all I can say.

If cash or patience issues have prevented the purchases of Tales From Turnpike House, though, something should be done... their best in years.

[miss-newham.livejournal.com]

Oh, I wish that my favourite bands would release Cliff Richard cover albums. Now I am sad that this hasn't happened.

I buy everything that the Mountain Goats and the Magnetic Fields and Nick Cave put out, though I haven't caught up with all their early albums yet, because they are my imaginary friends. Even if they should release a duff album or two, they still mean well.

You should read 'Love is a mix tape' by Rob Sheffield, partly cos it is wonderful and I think it might appeal to you, and partly because at one point the author blames REM releasing a bad album for his girlfriend breaking up with him...

[jeff-worrell.livejournal.com]

Kristin is a good example of my faithfulness actually. I don't own all her solo stuff, but I do have all the T. Muses records (and there were definitely some diminishing returns in later years there) and a couple of 50 Foot Wave records. I bought Learn To Sing... earlier this year with only moderate expectations. And yes it's going to be nowhere near my Top 20 (30? 40?) albums of the year. Sigh.

I was an A Certain Ratio completist in the 1980s. I lost patience with them around 1987 though. Have bought precisly zip by them since. It was a very sudden parting of the ways.

I remain a Stereolab completist. Yes, I have everything, even if only on mp3. No wait, there's two or three tracks on obscure compilations that I don't have, but that's it. I even spent £90 on the limited edition demos LP that was released by a German art collective (limited edition 12" vinyl with exclusive art print - 100 copies only!) a month or two back. Sad, I know.

[sbp.livejournal.com]

I tend to think "well I might think it's not that good now, but it might grow on me after a while". OTOH Suzanne Vega's "Days of Open Hand" is still a duff record.

So. Suzanne Vega, Aimee Mann, Goldfrapp (even though I wasn't a big fan of Supernature). Steely Dan (their last record was pretty good, the one before that less so).

I used to buy every Shadows record when I was a tiny, but they started putting less original music on and more instrumental covers of chart hits, so I stopped. And of course, Hank Marvin really has released a Cliff Richard covers album! ("Hank Plays Cliff")

PS I see your "try being a Prince completist" and raise you a "try being a Frank Zappa completist" - 63 albums released in his lifetime, another 19 released posthumously so far. I have a large percentage of these releases.

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

I have v. bad habit of buying nearly anything that comes out on Hospital Records and must be stopped before I disappear under a set of London Elektricity B-Sides compilations or something.