Jop Qualifiers 3!

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

The first of today's groups - as usual, it's pick one from four, except with voting closed on Grps A-D we have an entirely unexpected THREE-WAY DRAW, with only poor J Cash left out of the running. See bonus question to resolve this. Elsewhere, the KLF and Van Halen scraped in by a single vote, and Pulp cantered in by quite a few.


[Poll #912308]


Four more this afternoon, work permitting (well, not "permitting" obviously, but you know what I mean).

Comments

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Group I: Fiendish. Love all four songs, ticked "Romeo" for the good times, though it won't win.

Group J: Weak. Eurythmics gets the nod.

Group K: Easy. My favourite Jacko song.

Group L: Challenging. Disco favourite vs RnB favourite. Disco wins but may switch if the girls need me.

Bonus qn: Harsh. I like all of them really - ticked Elastica.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

'Funkytown' v 'Waterfalls' and 'Survivor' v 'I Luv U' are choices which break my heart.

The alarming success of Guns'n'Roses and Nirvana also breaks my heart. wtf people.

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

went for romeo to split the diff between waxl and bouncy, my two fave bad pop gurls :(

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

Least favourite Beastie Boys song there. Cmon Justine!

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

Group J = meh. I voted for Snoop because at a certain social event last year I was to be found staggering about clutching a bottle of gin in one hand and a carton of orange juice in the other, loudly proclaiming how amusing this was.

20 Vote Outlook

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I: Impossible to call. US poptimists will decide which way this goes I think.

J: Eurythmics by a mile though how they'll fare next round I don't know.

K: Nirvana must still be favourites but Jacko is pushing hard.

L: TLC victory by no means certain.

[jeff-worrell.livejournal.com]

Not sure wtf is going on here. "Paid In Full" was cruising to victory yesterday morning and now it's least liked? How fickle we are.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

If you don't like hip-hop (or don't like it as much as other stuff), it's the most hip-hop thing in there.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

if you don't like hip-hop you should not be in this community to start with!!!!!

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Nah, it's fine. I love this particular Eric B and R song but EB & R in general do represent a fairly pure strain of hip-hop: pared-down beats, emphasis on flow. I think it's totally possible to like the impact hip-hop has had on pop - the bastardisations and dilutions and goof-offs of hip-hop - more than you like Hip-Hop as such.

In fact I think I do this myself.

Poptimists, heal thyselves!

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

Marvin Gaye is easily responsible for three of the all-time great pop songs, and "SH" is one of them.

I just relistened to "Waterfalls" for the first time in a couple of years - AND IT'S NOT REALLY THAT GOOD. I mean, not bad certainly, but don't be basking in the warm glow of the positive critical reception it got then (which is the only possible reason I can see it leading right now).

"Funkytown," I'll admit, was iconic, but then wasn't there a vaguely bosh-y version ten years later. Maybe you like that better? (See me trying to split the vote?)

And yes, "Me Myself and I" is clever and pleasant and unique. But lots of hip-hop artists build their songs around the key hook from iconic pop songs nowadays. Are you voting for Pos and Trugoy, or are you voting for George Clinton?

Aigh!

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

Yawn

Re: 20 Vote Outlook

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

I am shocked at the Eurythmics walking away with this (particularly given the Madge-love yesterday). It makes me think that people are voting sentimentally more than anything else, 'cause RoL is easily one of MY favorite songs.

BTW, that will be something interesting to track - how different years/periods do.

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

if you don't like hip-hop rock action you should not be in this community to start with!!!!!

Re: 20 Vote Outlook

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

In a weird way I think the Eurythmics track feels the most modern of that four, even though it's pretty old. The particular minimalism and effect it went for has been done a lot since, but not often better.

But then I don't think RoL is much cop at all.

Re: Poptimists, heal thyselves!

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

A vote for De La Soul is a vote AGAINST George Clinton (and thus a good thing) - if he'd had any idea what to do with a hook like that, he'd be here instead of them!

Re: 20 Vote Outlook

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

Perhaps I feel a little bit towards "Sweet Dreams" the way I did towards "Papa Don't Preach" - so exhaustively played over so many years that I no longer feel the slightest twinge of magic in it (although it was certainly magical at the time).

Re: 20 Vote Outlook

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

'Sweet Dreams' is a bit like 'Get Ur Freak On' in the sense that a vote for it isn't just a vote for the song but a vote for every time you've heard the riff, every time it's been sampled or bootlegged or dropped out of nowhere in a DJ set - in the great library of pop sounds it is surely the Most Borrowed.

I love 'Ray Of Light' but it's not in the upper echelon of Madge singles for me.

Re: 20 Vote Outlook

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

'Sweet Dreams' is a bit like 'Get Ur Freak On' in the sense that a vote for it isn't just a vote for the song but a vote for every time you've heard the riff, every time it's been sampled or bootlegged or dropped out of nowhere in a DJ set - in the great library of pop sounds it is surely the Most Borrowed.

So it's kinda like the synthpop "Smells Like Teen Spirit"? ;)

Re: Poptimists, heal thyselves!

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

Them's fightin' words (although, admittedly, concision often not one of George's strong points).

Re: 20 Vote Outlook

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Well it beats Teen Spirit in that every time you hear the riff you go YESSSSS instead of thinking, christ, this party's not very good, maybe I should go home.

Re: Poptimists, heal thyselves!

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

'Waterfalls' is totally that good, one of those rare pop songs which tackles a serious subject head-on and pulls it off. One of T-Boz's finest moments, I love the grit and poignancy in her voice. Really great lyrics too.

UNFAIR

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

The votes of people with good taste are being split between three stone cold classics in Group I, leaving the mentalists to run away with the one awful song in the group!!!!!

STOP IT NOW.

Re: Poptimists, heal thyselves!

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

I guess my point is that I am unmoved by the successful "tackling of a serious subject head-on and pulling it off." And just on the song itself, would much rather hear the actually offensive "Creep" (without even bringing Left-Eye and Mel C into the discussion :)

Re: UNFAIR

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

it's almost as if it was PLANNED ALL ALONG...

Re: UNFAIR

[martinskidmore.livejournal.com]

I am disturbed to find myself saying this, but I totally agree with the Lex here - it was a difficult choice for me, and the only one I immediately discounted is leading!

Re: Poptimists, heal thyselves!

[martinskidmore.livejournal.com]

I totally love Waterfalls, and hated not voting for it - but I think Sexual Healing was the best soul record of the '80s and a total masterpiece.

Re: UNFAIR

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Nothing was planned - I love those four songs more than pretty much anything else in this batch, and was horrified at the randomiser's brutality.

In the next batch one act has two tracks in the same group - I might do a switch on that, I don't know yet.

Re: UNFAIR

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Still leading! By a long way! Gah. It's a horrendous song! And the others are SO good.

Re: Poptimists, heal thyselves!

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

'Creep' is amazing as well but my favourite TLC is probably their most offensive, misnathropic moment of all, 'Silly Ho'. The contempt in the lines "I ain't never been no silly bitch" and "I'm better than a man" is awesome.

[lockedintheatti.livejournal.com]

The question confused me at first and I ticked it (thinking I was ticking my favourite) but went back and reticked when I realised my error. Any chance others have done the same? It's the best of the three by miles.

Re: UNFAIR

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Meanwhile, Jacko has overtaken Nirvana for the first time!

Re: UNFAIR

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Thank god. May it stay that way. Fingers crossed. Get this rock nonsense out of the community.

Re: UNFAIR

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Erm Lex in what universe is "Beat It" not a rock song?

Re: UNFAIR

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

It has a good rhythm!

Re: UNFAIR

[jauntyalan.livejournal.com]

idiot :-)

Re: UNFAIR

[maura.livejournal.com]

oh boy.

anyway i am looking forward to the eddie van halen vs eddie van halen showdown that a 'beat it'/'jump' battle will bring

Re: UNFAIR

[lockedintheatti.livejournal.com]

I know it's a minority opinion, but 'Romeo' and 'Survivor' are probably my least favourite singles by those two groups (who I love). Would have voted for most other DC or BJ tracks over Sweet Child O Mine, but just not those two.

Justify My Ticks!

[justfanoe.livejournal.com]

Group I: Very, very tough choice between "Sweet Child O' Mine" and "Survivor". "Survivor" probably my #2 favorite Destiny's Child song, but GnR has a truly massive riff. I can see why it's not everybody's cup o' tea, but I like Axl's voice, and the riff pushes it over the top.

Group J: "Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This)" by default here. That's a mid-tier Madonna track, I like "Frozen" and probably about 10-20 other Madonna singles better. Course, I'm not a big fan of the Eurythmics track either, but whatev.

Group K: It kills me not to tick Jacko here, but I just like the Nirvana song better. Real high energy chorus, and a great guitar sound. Good teen alienation lyrics. One of the top 10 or 20 singles of the 90s based on the music alone. And "Beat It" isn't my favorite Michael Jackson track, and there'll be plenty of chance for him to advance with other ones. (Note that "Beat It" and "Smells Like Teen Spirit" probably my two favorite tracks of all 16 here).

Group L: Eh, don't like any of these songs very much. Voted De La. TLC overrated, I like "Creep" more.

Re: Poptimists, heal thyselves!

[koganbot]

What's wrong with voting for George Clinton? (My vote for "Bootylicious" is a vote for Waddy Wachtel.)

Re: UNFAIR

[koganbot]

Lex, if it makes you feel better, I voted for "Survivor" over "Sweet Child O' Mine" because "Survivor" rocks harder.

Confused

[koganbot]

Wait, this confuses me because, among other things, there are two very very different versions of "Paid In Full," the original album version and then the Cold Cut remix - the latter, as far as I know, being the one that hit in Britain and being the reason that "Paid In Full" made the P&J and being the version that you're all voting for. And (maybe this is your unstated point?) it's not pared down, it's a mix-and-match extravaganza, owing as much to disco mixes and Stars On 45 and "Pump Up The Volume"* as to "Wheels Of Steel." Maybe I just can't imagine why anyone would vote for the original version, which is not nearly as interesting as "I Know You Got Soul" and "Follow The Leader," two far better tracks of Eric B & Rakim's that didn't fare nearly as well on Jop. Anyway, I think that Rakim is the most overrated rapper in the history of hip-hop, which doesn't mean that he's not good, just that he's always cited as The Great Rapper, much like Dylan gets cited as The Great Rock Lyricist, and (unlike with Dylan) no one ever bothers to say what was so great about him, he's just there as a reactionary touchstone for people who want to slam whatever came after him. He's actually rhythmically quite dexterous, a virtuoso, inserted beats and in varied places, stopping and starting between measure bars, emphasizing off-beats, etc. But he's also dry as dust. Nelson George called his tone "the cutting edge," but I think a more accurate term would have been "boring." Can't think of a rapper who'd be less likely to go, "Throw your hands in the air, and wave 'em like you just don't care," or, if he did try it, to do it convincingly. Calling him "pure" hip-hop (I'm guessing you're using that term somewhat unfavorably, just as I discern irony in the capitalized "Hip-Hop as such") is like calling John Mayall & The Bluesbreakers a pure strain of rock or Flatt & Scruggs a pure strain of country. Seems more like a backwater. Whereas the bastardizations and the dilutions are the real deal (not sure what counts as a bastardization of hip-hop and what counts as hip-hop as such; what's Lil Jon, for instance? or Pharrell?). The first two Beasties albs are just as hip-hop as the first two Eric B. & Rakim. That said, "I Know You Got Soul" and "Follow The Leader" are great tracks, and I ticked "Connection" as my non-advancer.

*If I recall correctly, it, like "Pump Up The Volume," samples the line "pump up the volume" from Eric B. & Rakim's "I Know You Got Soul"