"It's impossible to be Actual* Pop and Actual Rock simultaneously!"

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

the lex just claimed this: is he korrekt?

my response = it is NOT COMMON CERTAINLY but it has happened, like a kind of harmonic convergence within recorded music after -- with things after never the same as before

for example:
i. stones
ii. sabbaf
iii. slade/pistols (=essentially the same thing anyway)
iv. pulp fiction inspired resurgence of SURF sound

obv plenty of bands have been one then the other but not simultaneously, and some have even switched back again

*note use of ACTUAL here must not be employed in any kind of essentialist slipperiness, bcz that kind of behaviour is INDIE

Comments

[zenith.livejournal.com]

What about Our Kell(y Clarkson)?

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Kelly Clarkson is, thankfully, Fake Rock in the same vein as Lavigne, Lohan, Simpson Jr et al.

[carsmilesteve.livejournal.com]

i'm trying to think of a non-glib answer (eg BUSTED!!), but one isn't easily forthcoming.

beatleband on the white alBUM (eg helterskelter) or were they already rock by that point?

i want to say WASIS, but can't quite pin down when it was (i'm thinking the second verse of cigs and alcohol)

neither the beatles nor oasis were EVER ROCK EVER

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

they are both pop through and through

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

This was the cornerstone of a lot of Nirvana-praise. Dunno how true it is - I always feel on shaky territory when people start talking about rock/rocks/rocking, like there's a secret I'm not in on.

when chuck asks BUT DOES IT ROCK?

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

he is asking about the presence of THRILLPOWER (discuss)

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

"recorded music after" = recorded music after chuck berry or similar

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Little Richard?

[jauntyalan.livejournal.com]

RAINBOW the band, not the telly show

[boyofbadgers.livejournal.com]

Rainbow = pop for duration of 'Since You've Been Gone', rock entire rest of time.

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

I'm sure I'm missing something here, but Bon Jovi/Whitesnake/Aerosmith/the 80s in general to thread (particularly the escaped essence of the 80s = Gunz'n'Roses)

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

what chuck and frank call HAIRCUT METAL is very often pop clearly

what frank somewhere calls HAIRCUT ANYTHING flirts with being pop

[juror8.livejournal.com]

Green Day, Blink 182, Evanescence, Metallica circa 1996...

[juror8.livejournal.com]

Anyway, rock music fandom, like dance/rave generation kids (and in diametric opposition to indie and rap) was about surrendering your individual identity to become a kind of collective "us" against another collective "them". That's as pop as you can get, surely?

THIS bit isn't especially "pop" i don't think...

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

[against another collective "them"]

The Lex = ACTUAL Geir Hongro of poptimists

[jeff-worrell.livejournal.com]

Jus' sayin. Carry on.

Re: The Lex = ACTUAL Geir Hongro of poptimists

[juror8.livejournal.com]

You've just noticed? He's not nicknamed Gayer Hongro for nothing.

[umlauts.livejournal.com]

But can you be Actual Grime and Actual Indie simultaneously?

(well, Lex can, and is, but can a musician?)

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

I have a distinct opinion that Bullet For My Valentine are actual rock and actual pop simultaneously right now but that's mostly because the singer has a reverse version of James Bourne's haircut.

But yes, actual rock'n'popatthesametimestuff:
-Pixies (whether they like it or not)
-Muse
-Death From Above 1979
-System Of A Down circa. those two new(ish) albums
-At The Drive In
-Blue Oyster Cult
-The Offspring
-Siouxsie And The Banshees
-Stiff Litte Fingers
-etc. etc. etc.

My brain hurts from failing exams, otherwise would be arsed to look through my iTunes and find some more.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

yes these all make sense to me. hurrah!

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

I have to say System of a Down are the only simultaneously METAL/POP band that are ANY GOOD AT ALL. And that's cos they are 23% Turbo Folk.

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

Definitely. Katatonia (misspelling deliberate) are alright, too but nothing I'd deliberately listen to.

Actually, thinking about it (and I may get lynched for saying this) but Linkin Park had an interesting style on their first album, it was semi-groundbreaking and sometimes I think you can hear a bit of that sort of noise in Girls Aloud's first album. Probably just me.

THE JUDGE IS FORGETTING...

[byebyepride.livejournal.com]

Mott the Hoople. (Also absent from yr glam piece I seem to remember -- forgive me if I mis-remember!)

Re: THE JUDGE IS FORGETTING...

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

BY NO MEANS absent from my glam piece!

[byebyepride.livejournal.com]

Actually wouldn't this be a 70s phenomenon, pretty much i.e. when rock was pop? Would the Eagles count? Lynnrd Skynnrd? I know zip all about this period, but in my head it is a golden age.

[carsmilesteve.livejournal.com]

hahaha, byebyepride = Sandi Thom

[thebopkids.livejournal.com]

I'm having a day of stating the blindingly obvious, but I'd say Queen were almost always rock, and almost always pop and nearly almost always both.

"You Really Got Me", "Since You Been Gone", "Sweet Child O' Mineworkers". "Walk This Way", too, the Run DMC versh obv.

Lots of the guitarrier end of contemporary country music I *don't* like is simultaneously pop, rock *and* country, but seems only to count as country, weirdly.

[thebopkids.livejournal.com]

Err also Bob Marley and the Wailers, from circa "Exodus".

"one then the other but not simultaneously"

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

How were the Stones not this? (I *think* I know but I wd like someone like you or Frank to explain)

Re: "one then the other but not simultaneously"

[koganbot]

Sir Dubdob is surely saying that the Stones are this, is he not?

Steely Dan

[giddyoldgoat.livejournal.com]

the first two albs esp. have LOTS of guitar solos

In the pub last night...

[awesomewells.livejournal.com]

... Alex listened to Hard Rock Hallelujah *and approved*.

QED.

Jesus Chrixt people, EVANESCENCE!

[koganbot]

Jesus Chrixt people, EVANESCENCE! And preceding/following Evanescence you have Avril, yes Avril, and if (for some reason) "sk8er boi" is too "fake rock" to be rock for you, you must listen on Let Go in quick succession to "Losing My Grip," "Mobile" (which references Calder), "Unwanted," and "Naked" and then listen to "Unwanted" five or six or ten more times and then jump to Breakaway and program in "Because of You" and "Addicted" and "Hear Me" and you are not hearing fake rock but crypto GOTH.

Re: Jesus Chrixt people, EVANESCENCE!

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

But surely what makes a brand of Rock real as opposed to fake are the good ol' r*ckist reasons - and no matter how much they get the sound right, no matter how heavy and proper (and indeed good) their Rock actually is, Avril and Kelly will always fail it. Evanescence I guess will as well, but I have no idea whether they were ever properly rock-credible prior to BMTL.

Engrish and Murrican Now Different Languages

[koganbot]

Failure of Slade to hit in the U.S. in 1973 made Slade rock not pop in the USA. Inability of Brits and Americans to communicate with each other dates from this moment. Unless it dates from 1964, when the Beatles third U.S. album was entitled The Beatles Second Album.

Context of Pop Rock Abundance

[koganbot]

But to answer the original assertion, not a rare phenomenon at all, cf. all the answers citing glam and hair metal. In addition to those:

The Rolling Stones "I Wanna Be Your Man," the Beatles "Money" and "You Can't Do That," the Animals "It's My Life" and "We Gotta Get Out of this Place," the Yardbirds "Heart Full of Soul," Bob Dylan "Subterranean Homesick Blues" and "Like a Rolling Stone" and "Positively 4th Street," the Byrds "8 Miles High," Vanilla Fudge "The Beat Goes On," Jefferson Airplane "Somebody to Love" and "White Rabbit," the Doors "Light My Fire," Jimi Hendrix "Hey Joe" and "Purple Haze," Deep Purple "Hush" (which steals the chords to "Hey Joe"), the Bob Seger System "Ramblin Gamblin Man," Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels "Devil with a Blue Dress On," Blues Magoos "Ain't Got Nothin' Yet," Sly & the Family Stone "I Wanna Take You Higher," the Velvet Underground "I Heard Her Call My Name," Iron Butterfly "Inna Gadda Da Vida," MC5 "High School," Alice Cooper "I'm Eighteen," the Grateful Dead "Casey Jones," Derek and the Dominoes "Layla," Allman Brothers "One Way Out," ELP "Ooo What a Lucky Man He Was," whoever it was who did "White Bird," Led Zeppelin "A Whole Lotta Love," Lynyrd Skynyrd "Sweet Home Alabama," Uriah Heep "Easy Livin'," Temptations "Papa Was a Rolling Stone," Isaac Hayes "Shaft," Miles Davis "Rated X," James Gang "Funk #49," Grand Funk "We're an American Band" and "Locomotion," New York Dolls "Personality Crisis" and everything else they ever recorded, Nazareth "This Flight Tonight" and "Love Hurts" and "Morning Dew," Creedence, Yes, Argent, KISS, Guess Who, BTO, Heart, Move, AC/DC, Thin Lizzy, ZZ Top, Brownsville Station, Patti Smith "Because the Night," Ram Jam "Black Betty," Funkadelic "Funky Dollar Bill" and "Get Off That Ass and Jam," Kraftwerk "Autobahn" and "Trans Europe Express," those idiots who did "Warm Leatherette," Adverts "Gary Gilmore's Eyes," Stevie Nicks "The Edge of Seventeen" (which invents dark metal), the Jimmy Castor Bunch "Troglodyte," Boney M "Still I'm Sad," Umlauthead "Ace of Spades," The Treacherous Three "The Body Rock," Run DMC "Sucker MCs," the Eighties in toto, Toto, Michael Jackson "Dirty Diana" and "Smooth Criminal," New Order "Blue Maundering," Flipper "Sex Bomb," Hüsker Dü "Sunshine Superman" and "Pink Turns to Blue," Teena Marie "Lips to Find You," Public Enemy "Bring the Noize" and "She Watch Channel Zero," Schoolly D "Signifying Monkey," Depeche Mode "Personal Jesus," Leftfield "Open Up," Sheryl Crow any single through 2000, Everclear all of So Much for the Afterglow, Alanis Morissette "You Oughta Know" (ha ha I have finally learned how to spell her name), Tiamat and the Gathering and Lacuna Coil and every dark metal band ever, Lucyfire, Green Day, Rancid, Hole "Celebrity Skin," Hardknox "Come In Hard (I Don't Like Rock 'n' Roll)" and every other big beat song ever, Missy Elliott f. Nelly Furtado "Get Ur Freak On Remix," Electric Six "Gay Bar," "Courtney Love "Mono," Montgomery Gentry "Free Fall," Big & Rich "Rollin' (the Ballad of Big & Rich)," Ashlee "Autobiography" and "Shadow" and "I Am Me," Lil Wayne "The Greatest Rapper Alive," Drive-By Truckers (!) "Don't Be So Easy." Also see pp 1-287 of Stairway to Hell (updated version).

[poptasticuk.livejournal.com]

If both rock and pop can be said to stem from rock'n'roll (of the rock around the clock type), then surely rock'n'roll is both rock and pop? Apart from that, the most obvious examples to me were the rock bands that become more (or are just perceived as more) mainstream when their style itself becomes mainstream eg. Blink 182, Good Charlotte. Best example of all = LORDI!