poptimists | Let's Talk About Sechs

Let's Talk About Sechs

"Isn't sex the point of pop?" asks the Lex. I dunno about the point, maybe a point, but is there really a lot of sexy pop around? (And what would that mean anyway?)

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Yes I basically agree with you - fundamentally, at the end of the way it's the PCDs laughing all the way to the bank (and even more so with Beyoncé, whose willingness to act submissive is a lot more unsettling than Nicole et al's). Most of the criticism I've seen claims to be feminist but that puritanical strain of feminism is one I've always disliked - whatever happened to pro-sex feminism anyway? How did we end up with Ariel fucking Levy dictating what women should and shouldn't find empowering?

I think the argument goes that PCDs are bad primarily because they're bad role models, instil false/warped sense of body image into women and girls (the criticism that the act of getting your body our for cash is innately immoral is never the main thrust of these arguments but the "you whores" subtext is never far from the surface) - I disagree. I don't think people obsess over their bodies because of celebrities, I think they do it because of how they want to look and feel. And eating disorders are mental illnesses which have far more to do with the sufferer's need for control than any amount of Nicole Richie magazine covers.

Um Lex I think you're getting a bit tangled at the end there - while yes the people worst affected by the 'size zero' nonsense are probably the celebs themselves & eating disorders are about control, the continued portrayal of lasses (and blokes!) with perfect bodies really does make the majority of perfectly healthy women feel miserable about the way they look (not to the extent of acquiring an eating disorder, just constant dissatisfaction & comparison to this imaginary 'perfect' body). They still have to decide "how they want to look and feel" based on *something*!

You're OTM about the 'whore' thing though. So they're flashing for cash. So what? Good for them.

I base how I want to look and feel on what I am attracted to! The gays are kind of privileged in this area though.

Good point! A large number of women seem to assume men are attracted by the kind of lass you see in FHM. Though the evil part of me thinks that if they're that dumb they deserve to feel miserable about themselves.

But don't most women go overboard with the obsessing-over-weight thing for other women? In a kind of weird competitive thing? I dunno, sleb bodies may make them feel shit but most of the women I know seem to manage to have a fairly healthy attitude towards their weight, sleb culture etc despite all of this. I don't think I know anyone who's consumed to the point of madness by trying to attain the perfect figure.

No - only a very few girls will go absolutely bonkers over their body image, it's usually just an ongoing background miserableness. It's also a fairly taboo subject - if a girl says "boo hoo am I fat?" then NO-ONE will say "yes, you're fat" unless they want to be 'nasty'. Even if they ARE fat! You have to be immensely tactful. Even if you're naturally skinny like me then you are almost made to feel guilty about not having to worry about being fat! I wonder how many girls have just read the words 'naturally skinny' and instantly thought "oooh, the lucky cow"? [This is one of my gripes, arggh, sorry.] Despite being a healthy weight, insecure girls will still ask the question, not believe the answer, decide to lose a stone, fail and feel miserable. Repeat. I'm not having a go at anyone for being insecure, quite the opposite - I'm angry at this unwritten rule that losing weight is the be-all and end-all of body image.

Lex I'd hazard a guess that the women you know are either intelligent enough to ignore all the bollocks/very well adjusted - or they just don't talk about it. Do any lady

poptimists want to back me up/set me straight here? What about you chaps out there?

I don't really have a coherent thought other than the question of looks (attractiveness, ugliness, desire) is a huge half-buried problem in most progressive conversations or scenes (totally including indie).

eg as a fat bloke I feel excluded from images of the perfect male bod as peddled by FHM etc. But I feel even MORE excluded from and resentful of images of more androgynous male beauty eg. emo boyz, Bowie clones, japanese boybands etc. - because those already represent a challenge for the 'power dynamic' of male attractiveness but it's a challenge that STILL manages to leave me out.

Now when I say "excluded from and resentful of" it's a minor niggle rather than a neurosis - I yam what I yam and at 34 most of my emotional body image scars have long healed over (also I'm used to being a tubbo which will give me an advantage when mid-life crisis hits my male peers!). But it's an example of how confusing the whole area is.

In my life I've known two or three girls who really were bulimic. I can't say what all the contributing factors were. But this was both in the '80s and the '00s, so I don't even know if anything's changed.

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Let's Talk About Sechs

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We're veering away from the topic but what the hell I could do with a rant

Re: We're veering away from the topic but what the hell I could do with a rant

Re: My 2p