I posted this on ILM and I wonder if I actually believe it. I'd certainly like to.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

"One of the things I really like about Eurovision is that it's a pop space which regularly and brutally REJECTS retro and revivalism via the ballot box: the regular ABBA-clones now can only scrape 12th or 13th and the French entries in their early-60s timewarm end up in the bottom four. Eurovision's commitment to the modernist project is impeccable!"

Comments

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

What amazes me is how the majority of countries come up with the same 'theme' each year. Last year was RAWK. Year before = tribal drumming. Year before that = eastern string samples. Year before that = overblown celtic LotR nonsense epics. Where do all these trends come from? Are we so separated from the rest of the continent that said theme is always a SURPRISE?

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

Year before that = overblown celtic LotR nonsense epics

i think i know where this might have come from!

You always fight the previous war

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Well I always feel that each year's new entries are basically reacting to last year's winner: if the reaction isn't interesting enough the terms of engagement shift suddenly as a new unexpected winner emerges. Was there really a lot of RAWK last year aside from Lordi - seemed to me the context was still very much working through the Ruslana aftermath!

Re: You always fight the previous war

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

Not so much rawk as haircut indie, I suppose, but definitely plenty of guitars. Which actually matches the trend in the UK I suppose... OK scratch that theory :-)

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

timeworm (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/k/kula+shaker/timeworm_20321817.html) more like

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Oh BTW the bit about the "modernist project" is a joke - it's the first sentence I'd like to believe.

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

I guess my problem with this is that Eurovision's space is both so broad (geographically and culturally) and so narrow (only one song), that you actually can't see trends at all. And "retro" and "revivalism" are both trends or stances, aren't they? I hardly think the consistent submission by at least a third the entrants of some MOR ballad qualifies as either. Also, does anyone think France's Eurovision entries in any way reflect the fairly vital music scene the country has had over at least the last decade? The last four years at least (Latvian mambo thing, Turkish dances, Ruslana's dances, Lordi spectacle) the winner has been entirely about Show.

[dubdobdee.livejournal.com]

isn't that a visible trend?

(certainly it makes sense as a response-shift towards to the viewer-voting system, which wants its attention grabbing and its memory goosed, in a sea opf potential "good song" sameness)

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

it is a trend yes, but not i don't think, in the sense freakytigger intended it. it doesn't really reflect the underlying music (and in fact, as you point out, reflects the structure and operations of the program)

[carsmilesteve.livejournal.com]

[carsmile returns to his tired old schtick about it being all about the visuals because it only really exists to have a television simulcast across europe]

[http://users.livejournal.com/xyzzzz__/]

Modernism (http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=60&threadid=5898#unread)

[umlauts.livejournal.com]

I don't think that what you posted holds that much water, Tom. There's been absolutely nothing modernist about the last few winners. It's been rejecting some, accepting others. Out of the last few winners, only "Wild Dances" sounded really NOW. Okay, say, 1998-2002 were much more "old" sounding than 2003-2005 but I think there's a BIG hit of retro (OMG! it's hard rock in a pop context!. Which is pretty damn 80s to me) in Lordi.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

aye but it's the Lordi concept transferred to Eurovision context that represents 'modernism' or progression/innovation in this case perhaps.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Yeah I take Edward's point. In the wider context of all pop Eurovision is not modernist. But - and this is the kernel of my point - within its own context it rewards innovation and novelty over classicism and tradition, whereas paradoxically the wider context does not (currently)do this.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

X-Factor does not really do it. At least cynical me thinks of the Michelle McManus and Leonie victories as political more than anything else (restoring the balance). there's no room for actual musical novelty in the X-Factor whereas there clearly is in Eurovision - a real point in it's favour.

[umlauts.livejournal.com]

I still don't buy this. Carola came 5th last year with very dubious Swede-disco by numbers and got a massive nostalgia vote even though the song wasn't a patch on, say, "It Hurts" or even "Listen To Your Heartbeat" or any other Swedish entry of the last 10 years that wasn't "Las Vegas" (2005). Russia put out a very standard pop ballad that happened to be very good and came 2nd.

Germany sent a COUNTRY SONG that was amazingly good and bombed. Country was a far more left-field thing in the context of 00s Eurovision than metal, cf "Eighties Coming Back", which was a far more significant moment than Lordi in terms of acceptance of non-stereotypical-in-eyes-of-public Eurovision genera.

[umlauts.livejournal.com]

I have more to say about this, and would like to respond properly to everything you and Steve are going to say but time zones are just not going to allow it.

[umlauts.livejournal.com]

Explain how.

Progression? Balderdash. Metal is the most popular form of music in Finland! It's no different to the UK sending "Love City Groove", or Sweden sending Charlotte Nielsen/Fame/Lena PH or the Balkan countries sending those oddly-time-signatured sweeping ballads.

[umlauts.livejournal.com]

Hang on, that was a bit narky, my BRANE is addled and I'm not meaning to be a rude twatface.

Living in a country where the most common form of pop is R&B and getting say, HiM in the charts is a novelty amidst all the R&B and pop-pop and rubbish indie chancers etc, it can be hard to understand the Finnish scene. But in any given Finnish top 40, you can count on there being 20 hard rock or metal singles. They do like cheesy pop too (i.e. Antti Tuisku) but it's a VERY metal country, and they were just submitting their national "sound" just like Sweden does when they submit an ABBA-esque song.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

i mean we're not just talking about the song being accepted but also WINNING the contest, and this not just being an empty ironic gesture (Eurovisionaries are SURRIUS about Pop?).

[umlauts.livejournal.com]

The conditions of the contest have changed enough that this wouldn't have been possible before. The move to a two-stage contest, the previous abolition of juries and probably other things, plus, as people vote certain ways, small trends over time establish themselves, and Lordi wasn't progression so much as a reaction to what had already been happening.

[chezghost.livejournal.com]

Progression because Eurovision itself has not really entertained the idea of metal before! Even if the song itself was nothing new outside that context it signified that EuroV criteria had expanded/relaxed no?

[umlauts.livejournal.com]

To me, it signified that the contest had already expanded its remit of acceptable types of songs (an arguably bigger breakthrough would be some of the more traditional guitar-pop songs that came out in years beforehand after mum-friendly pop and disco and such had been seen as the dominators) to a point where a) metal was enough of a novelty, and b) people could vote for a funny costume.

Lordi weren't significantly more rock than "Cool Vibes" was in 2005. It was, to me, just another song that won on its visual performance, like "I Wanna" in 2002 (which though I liked it, it did not deserve to win over "7th Wonder" that year.)

[koganbot]

Expect a Slovenian hyphy track to win next year. If not, Tom's thesis is rebutted.