more pop filosophie: discuss

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

We all read fluxblog, don't we? Yes, of course, we do. Matthew really seems to have raised his game over the last year or so, don't you think? Well, I just wanted to call people's attention to a post he updated yesterday. Somehow I would expect we'll all agree with his basic idea, if not about the specific example, although there's quite a bit too tease out.

I'll excerpt the relevant bit:

I'd like to address this comment left in the box below, which more or less echoes what I was railing against the last time I wrote about CSS at length:

I'm sure Lovefoxxx is not emoting that much. She's in a dance band for crying out loud and not a very good one. - Anon

To a certain extent this (obviously quite brave!) anonymous poster is entitled to their opinion, and since it is apparent that they haven't given this a great deal of thought, it's not really worth arguing with them, at least not in the interest of trying to change their mind. But honestly, there's no way I can read this sort of comment without assuming some pretty harsh things -- mainly, that they seem to have extremely rigid and unimaginative ideas about what signifies intelligent and emotionally moving art.

I think that a lot of the problem that some people run into with CSS is that their record is very much a product of the present tense, and though I believe that accounts for a great deal of its beauty, art that is so tied into a moment that will inevitably pass tends to freak out a certain type of insecure fan who demands permanence and timelessness, often because they are terrified of ever having to admit that they enjoyed something that has since become dated. If you want to cling to the notion of having an imagined aesthetic upper hand, you will most likely become allergic to this sort of music, and find refuge in safe bets. If you've conditioned yourself to think of contemporary culture (especially internet culture) as being an endless stream of vulgar novelty -- a notion that is not entirely inaccurate, by the way -- you've most likely blinded yourself to any art that speaks to the humanity and emotional truth of experiences within that culture.

Personally, I remember quite clearly a moment at uni when my roommate and I were questioning "Will we always like this music?" although for us I think it was a given that the music was timeless, and while it was we that would become dated.

Comments

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

Disclaimer: am ill and trying to write essay therefore nothing sensible is coming out of my head.

Well CSS aren't very good. If they were from Clapham I can't imagine that hardly anyone would give an arse but it seems that since it's Brazil then oooh! etc. They sound like lounge music, to me- actual Death From Above seem far more fun/sexy. (incidentally, the new DFA remix album is brilliant, although everyone else probably knew that already) I dunno, possibly I'd like CSS if I didn't have them stuffed down my throat as the saviours of the known universe every time I open a music publication but particularly blabbing on about them as though they're something philosophically amazing like in that Fluxblog post makes me want to break things. If they're philosophical, they're part of the 'ee, sex is naughty, isn't it?' movement.

I don't think that necessarily means Lovefoxx isn't emoting, although I don't think it's anything exceptionally deep and if the music is what it's touted as then it's fairly straightforward what she's saying in the lyrics, with a bit of self-consciousness. Most of it's just playing, anyway, isn't it? Which isn't to say that's not emoting and there is something conscious about the music, which I find annoyingly knowing a lot of the time.

I don't think that song's even about a long-distance relationship, is it?

Also, Mr Fluxblog probably doesn't sway around nearly blubbing to Jamie T but I didn't go and say that makes him a shallow tart, incapable of understanding music, did I?

Which is not to say I was the anonymous commenter, because I don't read fluxblog. Judging from that it all seems a bit hysterical.

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

If the comments on that post were going to be dissected, this one is more interesting- *sigh*

I didn't understand CSS, now after spending a few days with my 18 year-old sister, little lo sunbeam, who's visiting me over her spring break, I'm now painfully aware of where this song is coming from and what that deadpan, detached delivery is all about.

I don't like feeling like a prude, and I don't particularly think that I am -- but by golly, growing up in the 80's, affected by the burgeoning years of the AIDS epidemic and the tail end of second-wave feminism sure did make anyone over the age of say, 28 or so, really, really self-conscious to a fault about promiscuity and casual sex. -cindyhotpoint

I'm not sure I totally get what the hell it's talking about but that seems far more interesting than someone who got a bit narked at seeing yet another piece of the internet dedicated to raving about CSS.

CSS per se, was not the point

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

Sorry if that wasn't clear. (I've never really even listened to the lyrics, to tell the truth, aside from the title, which I've basically ignored. I do like the actual music, though.)

The same defense might've been written for any number of pop acts deemed trendy or disposable.

Re: CSS per se, was not the point

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I realised that pretty much as soon as I'd pressed post -I should really wake up before I start ranting at the internet; sorry.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

Yes this is more interesting.

[braisedbywolves.livejournal.com]

Well CSS aren't very good. If they were from Clapham I can't imagine that hardly anyone would give an arse but it seems that since it's Brazil then oooh! etc.

What's wrong with this (not that it's true IMHO)? People's enjoyment of things are related to preconceptions and biases and everything - English not being their first language has a pretty major effect on how people react to their lyrics' clumsiness!

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

I think it's that, as I said below, I kind of see this as 'would you believe they have a synthesizer in Brazil?!' rather than just 'CSS are from Brazil.' Dunno, I probably read way too much into it cus I'm an International Relations student.

[zenith.livejournal.com]

possibly I'd like CSS if I didn't have them stuffed down my throat as the saviours of the known universe every time I open a music publication

This strikes me as an explicitly anti-pop point of view - exactly the same as whenever people justify directing vitriol at mainstream pop because "I'm forced to listen to it whenever I go to the shops or turn on the radio". As a reason to dislike something, it's nonsense, and it makes even less sense when applied to someone like CSS, who surely must be raved about by only a handful of music publications - Plan B put them on the cover but one Alex Macpherson slated the album, the NME quite like them but nowhere near as much as the next band who don't have girls in or sound a bit foreign.

Equally, "people only like them cos they're from Brazil" = about as useful a comment as "people only like them cos they fancy them" - although of course, if they were from Clapham then they would sound different, wouldn't they.

Also, if 'Let's Make Love & Listen To Death From Above' isn't explicitly about a long-distance relationship/courtship then I'm not sure there's a better way to read it. Telephone calls, exchanged mixes, plane journeys made for love...

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

I've never listened to the lyrics enough to get an idea of the content.

I wouldn't like Carter De Ser USM as much if they were from Brazil, so it works both ways.

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

This strikes me as an explicitly anti-pop point of view

"I'm too indie for indie," innit?

Re: brazil vs clapham

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

I don't think so, I think it's just quite annoying when you read a whole set of things that say something's AMAZING and then it sounds quite rubbish when you actually hear it.

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

I think it's the fact I think there was fun music before CSS and there will be afterwards and a lot of places seem to be suggesting that they just reinvented the idea of disco, when I see that as having been done before. It's not an anti-pop statement, it's a dislike of the way in which the music is dealt with. Rather than saying 'well this is quite ace' it seems to go for 'it's the second coming!!!1one!' when, to my ears, they sound a lot like a huge number of other things around at the minute. I dunno, I just don't think they're that great.

Mixmag was all over them for awhile. I think it was Mixmag, anyway, might have been something else one of my flatmates left in the bathroom and the NME goes mental every time Lovefoxx sneezes, as far as I can tell but I do only read it every six months or so. Various bits of stuff that fall out of newspapers have been drooling all over them, too, although I guess those aren't really music publications per se.

I find the Brazil thing vaguely patronising, more than anything else. Like, 'oh my god, someone in Brazil wrote a pop song' -surely not! Possibly this is a gross misinterpretation of what's going on and I by no means think it's what everyone who likes CSS thinks but I find it really quite annoying.

[freakytigger.livejournal.com]

a lot of places seem to be suggesting that they just reinvented the idea of disco

This is pretty much endemic every time you get a band with a beat I think! :(

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

Yeah. :( I don't think it's particular to CSS at all, it's just I heard them after about three months of articles etc. due to a total internet blackout so I tend to direct my rage about it at them.

someone in Brazil wrote a pop song

[blue-russian.livejournal.com]

i don't know if i go OMG but i certainly do find it interesting when people appropriate bits of a fairly different culture and make it their own. if we think "the internet makes us a chain of global villages la la la" then no, it's not surprising, but i still preserve no small degree of wonder and therefore joy at the idea of teenage girls in brazil liking Death From Above. i am sure no small portion of the US or Canada (never did figure out which DFA was being referred to) has no idea that they exist.

Re: someone in Brazil wrote a pop song

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

That's true, actually, I don't think I'd really approached it thinking about it like that before. I tend to have some kind of massive (and totally ridiculous/offensive to myself even when I actually think about it) reaction to a lot of stuff like that based on the fact I am an International Relations student and so spend a lot of my time being stupid about cultural imperialism vs cultural appropriation etc. See also: have read too much Eduardo Galeano in last week possibly.

On the other hand, there is the aspect that a lot of awesome Brazilian music that doesn't so heavily emulate music from these parts/the US doesn't get that kind of interest around it. Which is a shame, in my opinion, although I'll admit my knowledge of Brazilian music is highly limited.

Are the two DFAs not the same? I have been lied to. I thought Jesse Whatshisface was in both of them? Either him or the other one, Sebastien Whatshisfaceorwhateverhe'scalled. Blimey.

Re: someone in Brazil wrote a pop song

[pot80.livejournal.com]

No, James Murphy and DFA sued the Death From Above 1979 guys, made them alter the name -- hence the 1979 tag.

[zenith.livejournal.com]

the NME goes mental every time Lovefoxx sneezes, as far as I can tell but I do only read it every six months or so

I think I see a flaw in yr data methodology here...

[piratemoggy.livejournal.com]

Yeah, fair point.

[dickmalone.livejournal.com]

Hearing lots and lots of people raving about something I'm indifferent to turns that indifference to hate. Is that anti-pop? It keeps happening to me lately.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

This has always happened to me, it's not so much anti-pop as anti-stupid people with bad taste. Whenever I think about it I'm less angry at the Arctic Monkeys/Kaiser Chiefs/whoever than I am at the people pretending they're any good.