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poptimists2009-01-16 01:56 pm
freakytigger.livejournal.com) wrote in poptimists2009-01-16 01:56 pm
Pop Solipsism
Even for me this is a nebulous thort so bear with me:
I was talking on another blog about vocals, specifically Bobby Gillespie's vocals, and I said:
"Bobby G is kind of a unique case because he - perhaps creditably* - tries to make his voice go along with a whole BUNCH of old-timey stylistic tropes: rawk vocals, psych hippie vocals (as here), even GOSPEL at times. And IMO he really doesn't have the voice for any of them - it's just too thin.
*though I don't think so: I think it's a symptom of a (very British?) punk overhang where the will to do something became more important than the ability to do it. So "This is our Stones track" was enough to make a track "their Stones track". "There's always been a dance element to our music" and "We're gonna be the biggest band in the world" and such statements (not by Primal Scream necessarily) are other examples. It's an extension of a solipsism which came in with New Pop, I think, and which made that particular scene so vibrant but has really not helped British music since."
Now I think I have a kernel of a point here, though "will to do something" isn't exactly it, and I don't think it's specifically British either: I remember reading some Kogan stuff about the idea of something standing in for the reality in re. 80s US punkers and indie guys, except he phrased it slightly differently.
And it ties in with Lex's recent complaints about how Lady GaGa seems to operate by saying "I am original and artistic" as often as possible until people believe it.
The New Pop reference is to the idea that in 1980-82 a load of bands said "Right, we are making Pop Music and we intend that the charts reflect that", and by luck and timing and judgement it WORKED and they actually did rush into the charts and take over (a bit). But since then it's more often been the declaration rather than the realization that's won people over.
This all boils down to "When is it bad to declare your ambition?"
I was talking on another blog about vocals, specifically Bobby Gillespie's vocals, and I said:
"Bobby G is kind of a unique case because he - perhaps creditably* - tries to make his voice go along with a whole BUNCH of old-timey stylistic tropes: rawk vocals, psych hippie vocals (as here), even GOSPEL at times. And IMO he really doesn't have the voice for any of them - it's just too thin.
*though I don't think so: I think it's a symptom of a (very British?) punk overhang where the will to do something became more important than the ability to do it. So "This is our Stones track" was enough to make a track "their Stones track". "There's always been a dance element to our music" and "We're gonna be the biggest band in the world" and such statements (not by Primal Scream necessarily) are other examples. It's an extension of a solipsism which came in with New Pop, I think, and which made that particular scene so vibrant but has really not helped British music since."
Now I think I have a kernel of a point here, though "will to do something" isn't exactly it, and I don't think it's specifically British either: I remember reading some Kogan stuff about the idea of something standing in for the reality in re. 80s US punkers and indie guys, except he phrased it slightly differently.
And it ties in with Lex's recent complaints about how Lady GaGa seems to operate by saying "I am original and artistic" as often as possible until people believe it.
The New Pop reference is to the idea that in 1980-82 a load of bands said "Right, we are making Pop Music and we intend that the charts reflect that", and by luck and timing and judgement it WORKED and they actually did rush into the charts and take over (a bit). But since then it's more often been the declaration rather than the realization that's won people over.
This all boils down to "When is it bad to declare your ambition?"
no subject
It's never bad to declare your ambition if you can back it up. Hence Gaga's epic fail (La Roux, Florence and the Machine et al as well).
a symptom of a (very British?) punk overhang where the will to do something became more important than the ability to do it
ughhh this is a meme? this is a horrible way to think about music, it's just empty signifiers isn't it?
I think the strategy of Gaga et al wrt their statements of ambition is coming from a different place than Primal Scream (NB: if it's not, this is cuz I know nothing about PS). I don't think there's any philosophy underlying it as complex as "the will to do something is more important than the ability to do it" - I think she's just ahead of most people in the industry wrt how the media works. It's similar to how the Repubs seemed to be winning the media war at one point in the US presidential campaign - by throwing a bunch of rumours and lies out into the media w/flagrant disregard for truth or plausibility, knowing that the volume of media was so great that even blatant lies would catch on.
no subject
New Pop in its broad sense = i. a bunch of acts who'd emerged 3-4 years after punk shook up the UK industry, saying "Actually, being successful and having hits is inherently a really good idea, and you can do this without compromising whatever artistic ideals you might have had." ii. a rise in the quality of 'manufactured pop' thanks to more attention to detail and style, better songwriting.
ii has happened many times of course, and there's always people talking the i game but very few of them actually succeed: the thing about New Pop was how many did.
....all of this basically in response to the decline of the weekly rock press and the rise of the style press, Smash Hits etc. as high-readership influential media.
no subject
I think it applies to a lot of (mostly cheesy?) dance music tho, including much European stuff (e.g. Scooter) altho a lot of that suffers from a LACK of ambition perhaps.
otoh dance people trying to make it as career/album artists is often seen as bad. i have always been suspicious of this argument tho, even if it is true that there are many dud albums by many dance acts.