ext_281244 ([identity profile] freakytigger.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] poptimists2007-10-04 05:12 pm

Context and Anticontext

Quite unformed thorts based on Frank K's latest column and discussion of same - see here: http://koganbot.livejournal.com/26897.html

Music has a social context, obv - who else is listening to stuff you encounter, both people you know and people you don't but you assume things (good or bad) about.

It also has an anticontext (erm this is just another part of the context rly but I wanted a snappy name for it) - people who AREN'T listening to it, because they don't like it or because they don't know about it.

But not everyone who doesn't listen to something matters in terms of the anticontext - my reaction to Keane, say, is affected by my imagining Mums listening to Keane, and NME readers mostly not listening to Keane, but isn't significantly affected by Amazon tribesmen not listening to Keane, or by my Great Aunt Betty not listening to Keane. The Amazon tribesmen and Great Aunt Betty are not part of the anticontext here: the NME readers are.

Context and especially anticontext are obviously hugely important in enclosed social spheres, like school or University, and then maybe the anticontext fades from importance a bit later in life.

Here's my theory - the anticontext has shrunk, steadily, since the 1960s. The sense that a random guy on the street, or someone of a different agegroup, or someone not dressing the same as you, is part of the anticontext, has diminished (with occasional seismic flare-ups). And also, MAYBE, the size of the potential context is directly related to the size of the anticontext (since just as not every non-listener is in the anticontext, not every listener is in the context).
koganbot: (Default)

[personal profile] koganbot 2007-10-04 04:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Maybe the 1960s had more anticontexts, owing to there being more local scenes, therefore more contexts and more anticontexts to react against them.
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[personal profile] koganbot 2007-10-04 04:45 pm (UTC)(link)
So size of anticontexts may not be as significant as numbers of anticontexts and numbers of contexts.

Except, in a high school, jock isn't one context and burnout another, but rather jock vs. burnout is the context. A college musical context might be rock vs. dance vs. pop vs. indie (not to mention subcontexts and suboppositions, and maybe country is in there somewhere), except "versus" to some degree will be "and" (and vice versa)(and vice versus).
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[personal profile] koganbot 2007-10-04 04:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Also, there are anti-anticontexts. E.g., back in 1968 Peter Laughner and Charlotte Pressler were discussing the need for a counter-counterculture, which eventually started to grow up out of some (or one, and then two or three) NY band and a bunch of Detroit and Cleveland bands, and a Michigan magazine (Creem), this counter-counterculture variously being dubbed glitter or metal or punk. And then punk became just another counterculture, and...

But I don't know. You could say that Why Music Sucks and Radio On and Swellsville were anti-anticontexts, if indie-alternative is your basic anticontext, except that many readers and writers for WMS (incl. me) were indie-alternative musicians and distributors themselves, and many of the Radio On writers such as Rob Sheffield (who also wrote for WMS) were fans of a good deal of indie. So the way that it was an anticontext wasn't its being anti-indie but that it didn't take indie vs. mainstream as its dominant attitude, rather it argued the issues, just as ilX and [livejournal.com profile] poptimists do, on good days.

[identity profile] mwwhitesf.livejournal.com 2007-10-04 05:03 pm (UTC)(link)
The size of my anti-context has diminished steadily since about the age of 22.

[identity profile] lockedintheatti.livejournal.com 2007-10-04 05:31 pm (UTC)(link)
Context and anti-context is one of the reasons I enjoy listening to foreign pop music - I just browse iTunes or the relevant foreign amazon and listen to clips of stuff and decide what I like, refreshingly free of the context of who is listening to it in their home markets.

[identity profile] celentari.livejournal.com 2007-10-04 05:55 pm (UTC)(link)
This is an interesting post - just wanted to let you know that. This kind of stuff is why I joined Poptimists. Not sure I have too much to add.

Think it is only in pop that the anti-context has got smaller for e.g. Thai tribesmen have now heard of Britney. But for other genres, particularly where obscurity is actively valued by fans, the reverse is probably true - there are more people making music now than in 1966, simply because they can (affordable equipment etc) and thus it's harder to keep track of everything, even if you would probably like a band were you aware of them.

Why People Don't Listen (revisited)

[identity profile] skyecaptain.livejournal.com 2007-10-04 07:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Read an interesting article in a "migration politics" course about why people don't move (discussing how not moving tends to be a major blind spot in discussing the politics of migration of people). It occurs to me that we could try to sketch out (as [livejournal.com profile] dickmalone did a while back) reasons why people DON'T listen, and -- maybe as importantly -- why we (1) assume other people aren't listening (usually more accurately: "why [group] aren't and shouldn't be listening"), (2) don't listen ourselves (Frank, why don't you read cat mysteries again? I feel like this is a subgenre I could get behind!), and (3) both the benefits and detriments to conversation that result in how we filter things out, based on what we've chosen to ignore and why.

(1) I assume most of my classmates aren't listening to Ashlee Simpson. (However, I think they should; they tend to think I should not, or at least that it's odd that I do.)
(2) I do not listen to smooth jazz.
(3) In case (1), not listening tends to be a detriment. They take my logic for (2) (I listen to OTHER jazz and can hear the difference; I know that it's catered to "easy listening" listeners, meaning it's intended to recede into the background and I prefer to listen actively (this is why I don't particularly care if I hear it in an elevator but wouldn't listen to it in my stereo) and then apply my logic inappropriately to Ashlee. I know this because I've listened -- but the only context most people have for Ashlee is "easy listening," as "Pieces of Me" is for the most part a contemporary "soft rock" ballad (because what's interesting in it requires context and isn't just happening in the music itself).
koganbot: (Default)

Tha birth a da smoove

[personal profile] koganbot 2007-10-04 07:54 pm (UTC)(link)
If "Pieces Of Me" is soft rock (and it is on adult contemporary, but this is not your mama's mama's adult contemporary) it's wailing soft rock. (I still don't know what your problem is with the song. It's sweet, but it's wailing, and it has its wail.)

I listen to the smooth jazz station once a month, when my friend Phil's boyfriend Jim gives the two of us a ride to the writer's group we're part of. A couple of month's ago the smooth jazz station was playing "Papa Was A Rollin' Stone." Shelton, the husband of Sue, a woman in the writer's group, leads a blues-r&b band, and they play "Papa Was A Rollin' Stone," too, though they don't signify as "smooth."

I'd expect cat mysteries to be too too precious. (Btw, I've now posted my brother's analysis of Lillian Jackson Braun.)

Re: Tha birth a da smoove

[identity profile] skyecaptain.livejournal.com 2007-10-04 08:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Actually, I've gotten over many of my own problems with the song, but I noticed the "soft rock" categorization about a year or so ago after hearing it on the radio between, like, Phil Collins and...I dunno, something Phil Collinsy. Thought it was a bit odd, but my girlfriend assured me that the song played on that radio station (in the nearby coffee shop) all the time. (But yeah, maybe "adult contemporary" is more adventurous than I remember it being when it was "hits of the 70's, 80's, and 90's" as a kid, which usually meant lots of Vanessa Williams and...uh, Phil Collins.)

Re: Tha birth a da smoove

[identity profile] katstevens.livejournal.com 2007-10-04 10:24 pm (UTC)(link)
I am TEMPTED (do you see) to do a Temptations canon tomorrow...

[identity profile] katstevens.livejournal.com 2007-10-04 10:43 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm not sure that's quite right - the anti-context has shrunk since the 60s because it's harder to avoid hearing music of all genres, everywhere you go. If you have any vague interest in the music (and hence being part of the relevant context/anti-context) then you will (consciously or not) absorb it wandering round shops, watching adverts on the telly, hearing the person across the office's mobile playing the intro to The Final Countdown over and over again. Music is thrust upon you and it's not just pop - I remember being flabberghasted that a bit of continuity music for 'what's coming up next on BBC2' was off Michael Mayer's Fabric 13 mix!

So perhaps the change has occured in the greater use of pre-existing music for telly/film/ads/hold music/ringtones rather than commissioning someone to write music especially (interestingly this type of music has never been of much interest to the pop music fan other than as a novelty hit, but Great Aunt Betty will probably have a copy of Greatest Bond Themes in her dresser).

[identity profile] katstevens.livejournal.com 2007-10-04 10:50 pm (UTC)(link)
I could include interwebs & multi-channel telly/radio in the harder-to-avoid environmental factors, but a) they have arrived relatively late in the 60s-present timescale b) they require active participation from the listener rather than being a passive side-effect of another action (eg walking into Topshop because you need to buy jeans and hearing an amazing bosh remix of Kiri Te Kanewa).

[identity profile] lockedintheatti.livejournal.com 2007-10-05 08:30 am (UTC)(link)
Although you assume an active interest in music there - the anti-context may have shrunk for people as actively engaged with music as us, but I have a lot of friends who merely *like* music and it baffles me how they avoid hearing (or claiming to have heard) things that I presume everyone has heard.

[identity profile] katstevens.livejournal.com 2007-10-05 08:57 am (UTC)(link)
I may well be getting confused with the terminology! I was assume that the active interest meant you were part of the context/anti-context sphere.

[identity profile] lockedintheatti.livejournal.com 2007-10-05 09:03 am (UTC)(link)
I may be the one who may be confused. I suppose I was defining it as my own personal context - so most of my friends are part of my context as they who are who I spend most of my time with and in real life have most conversations about music with.

Re: Tha birth a da smoove

[identity profile] alexmacpherson.livejournal.com 2007-10-05 09:07 am (UTC)(link)
About two years on I have FINALLY realised that 'Pieces Of Me' is prob a reference to 'Tear In Your Hand' by Tori Amos, DUH! ("I think there're pieces of me you've never seen, maybe she's just the pieces of me you've never seen.")

This is a really good post and anticontext is def a v important point - usually it manifests itself as sneering at stereotypical fans - but I am too frazzled to contribute anything more! bah.

[identity profile] lockedintheatti.livejournal.com 2007-10-05 09:38 am (UTC)(link)
Ah, I get it now. I'd agree that the anti-context is pretty big (and even vocal) during polarising new movements in music such as the ones you mention above, and that isn't present at the moment as there is no one current thing so big and new and different for people not to get.

However there is still, in my experience, a very large bedrock of anti-context amongst the man in the street (and I do mean man, largely) in terms of general rockist attitudes to pop in particular.

[identity profile] blue-russian.livejournal.com 2007-10-05 10:33 am (UTC)(link)
Not a fully formed thought here, either, but oddly enough this resonated with something I was thinking on the way to work today.

Background: I am, or was, the only person born in the US in my office. There are a few people who lived there or in Canada maybe 5 or more years as a adults, and the majority of them are life-long Russians. That is, until recently, when we hired a young American to work as an English-language editor.

The story: This morning "Sodajerk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNrb2jrZvv0)" by Buffalo Tom shuffled up on the iPod, and I suddenly realized one reason (or aspect, perhaps) of why I kind of resent the arrival of this new person. Until now, "Sodajerk" was completely mine - chances are next to nil that anyone else I know (IRL) would have even heard it, let alone have a context to place it in. Suddenly I have this person who, it's entirely likely, might hear the song and immediately mentally note "Oh yes that was that song from My So-Called Life (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGm_rbQvyU8) (or whatever context he might have - "another crappy 90s alt-college rock band"). And that kind of robs me of *my* meaning of the song - i.e. to me it may have been red but suddently there's this drop of yellow in it, and i've got to negotiate with orange.

Not sure that gets anyone anywhere, just what I was thinking. Occasionally I think to myself that this is kind of a strange community for me to be participating in, because of a lot of music is for me an intensely personal, and therefore private, experience, and the last thing I want to do is *share* it with anyone.

[identity profile] lockedintheatti.livejournal.com 2007-10-05 10:53 am (UTC)(link)
I often feel the same, although as I noted above pretty much all my real life friends have no interest in about 75% of the music I'm into, so it still gets to feel special and mine out there. And then I have here (and other places on the net) to come to when I do want to talk about that stuff with other people.
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Angela! Wait! Don't Forget The Geometry Review!

[personal profile] koganbot 2007-10-05 02:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Ha! First thing I thought when you mentioned Buffalo Tom was "My So-Called Life." Was it the pilot episode, the one where they're going to go see some show - I think it's Buffalo Tom - and there's a vague subplot where Tino is supposed to arrive with fake IDs or something, but of course you never see him, and they're passing time in the parking lot so Ricky asks Rayanne and Angela what they'd most want a lover to say when commencing sex? (Rayanne: "This won't take long.") Angela suggests, "You're so beautiful, it hurts to look at you." Ricky tells Angela that that is absolutely wonderful, while Rayanne snickers. Then Rayanne goes on to get smashed and smashed up, flirting and picking fights; she has to be rescued by police. So she and Angela miss the show. As they're being taken home in a patrol car, a giggly drunk Rayanne gets suddenly lucid, stares at Angela, says to her in earnest, "You're so beautiful it hurts to look at you," then stumbles from the car up the steps to her home.

No, wait, a quick google shows that "Sodajerk" is in a different episode, in fact a different couple of episodes, actually, most notably the one where Jordan finally is willing to hold Angela's hand in public (except the Buffalo Tom song that accompanies this is "Late At Night").

Well, now I've probably ruined your private meaning of "Sodajerk" forever.
koganbot: (Default)

Re: Tha birth a da smoove

[personal profile] koganbot 2007-10-05 03:21 pm (UTC)(link)
OK, well, I'm listening to "Tear In Your Hand" for the first time, and the Ashlee song I might associate that with thematically isn't "Pieces Of Me" but "Autobiograpy" (Ashlee's "I walked a thousand miles while everyone was asleep/Nobody's really seen my million subtleties" in comparison to Tori's "I think there're pieces of me you've never seen"). My guess is that Ashlee came up with the idea for "Pieces" without reference to anything else. But Tori is the sort of singer Ashlee would listen to, and I can imagine her hearing "Tear In Your Hand" and thinking, "Yes, but there are no pieces of me that Ryan's never seen" - except the way "Pieces" appears chronologically in Ashlee's reality show* (and the chronology may have been manipulated), you get the sense that she hopes this is what will happen with Ryan, but the relationship is just getting underway. The Ashlee lyrics are way more articulate in regard to what the pieces actually are, of course. Watching the show you see that the idea for the lyrics were clearly hers and probably the anxious Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday stuff at the start, but I also got the impression that Kara (it's her one appearance) wrote a good deal of the middle: she assures Ashlee that she's using the song title as a guide. In any event, Tori's being thrown over while Ashlee, for once, is being accepted, even though she's moody, messy, restless, angry, and she crashes real hard. (But then Tori claims to be the black of the blackest ocean.) Another thematically similar song is Jess's "With You," from 2003 I think; it's a nice song though of course the words aren't one-tenth as complicated as Ashlee's, but anyway, with you (i.e., with Nick, at least that's what the video suggests) Jess can let her hair down and can say anything crazy [except she doesn't, at least not within our earshot] and wear nothing but a T-shirt and be herself, etc.; it sounds warmer than it reads. The thing is, the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday stuff in "Pieces Of Me" gives the song something a plot, so you actually understand her joyous relief and release when on the Tuesday following the sleepless Wednesday she fades into his arms and finally breathes.

[*Incredible episodes three and four (S01E03 and S01E04) of the Ashlee Simpson Show, if you haven't seen them.]
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[personal profile] koganbot 2007-10-05 03:53 pm (UTC)(link)
Ah, I'm understanding better now. I just was taking "anticontext" to be something like alternative, but I take it that anticontext is whoever I'm defining as the oppositional (or at least contrasted-against) people. (But isn't the "anticontext" still part of the context?)
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Rap and country

[personal profile] koganbot 2007-10-05 04:14 pm (UTC)(link)
But I'm still not sure I'm understanding why you think the anticontext is shrinking. Would it be that there's less of an ability for a genre to stake out its claim "This is our music and these are our fans and the rest of you don't get it"? So there are no great Us vs. Them splits as in the days of yore, since They end up being uncooperatively tolerant and curious. Um, you may be right, but I sure seem to have inadvertantly discovered a huge anticontext when it comes to teenpop. But my guess is that many in the primary audience for, say, High School Musical and Hannah Montana and the Cheetah Girls (which isn't the teenpop that's been winning my heart, for the most part, except that an HSM track got into my P&J top ten last year and a Miley Cyrus track will this year) don't particularly have a sense of an anticontext or get affected by it. But I could be all wrong.

Several performers have created major anticontexts for themselves recently: E.g., Eminem in 2000 and Paris Hilton in 2006. As a genre, hip-hop still seems as if it has the biggest anticontext. And what about country? In '99 Kevin John entitled his fanzine "The magazine of rap and country" because he'd read some alternative-leaning magazine that declared, "We like everything except for rap and country."